SD on 1/7/2016 at 13:39
The trouble for Boris was that he only hitched his horse to the Brexit wagon for political purposes. Up to that point he'd generally been seen as a lukewarm Europhile, though his party's supporters are mainly Eurosceptic. Right up until the last minute nobody knew whether Boris would declare one way or the other.
With Cameron committed to stepping down before 2020, the idea was that Boris would lead the Leave camp to a noble but narrow defeat, and be ideally placed to ascend to the leadership.
Unfortunately for him his campaign was successful. The country is going down the tubes because of someone's leadership aspirations, and he's not even going through with it. It's tragic.
Manwe on 1/7/2016 at 17:19
Hmm lol I could have told you that 15 years ago when I first played Deus Ex. But really it's not like they've been hiding their agenda. That's been the official policy of the EU for quite a while now: destroying the national level while promoting the regional level in the hope of creating a federal Europe. Hell, that's the official party line of the Green Party in France (unsurprisingly called "Europe Ecologie Les Verts").
If you want proof about any of this you just have to look at the work of François Asselineau in France. Or just look at how the youth of Europe was brainwashed to hate their own nations. Look at braindead idiots like SD: that's the EU agenda in a nutshell.
Also I'm just going to leave this here because it's funny:
(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn_6sU7O43w)
Nicker on 1/7/2016 at 18:03
Quote Posted by SD
Unfortunately for him his campaign was successful. The country is going down the tubes because of someone's leadership aspirations, and he's not even going through with it. It's tragic.
It amazes me how easily entire populations are swayed by charismatic personalities. The mass mind of humanity seems very vulnerable to individuals with sociopathic tendencies, not recognizing the illness until it's too late.
Is it a relic of our evolution or an inextricable part of our nature? Is sociopathy its own disease or some dysfunctional expression of originality. Is it necessary or incidental?
Starker on 1/7/2016 at 18:08
Yeah, I think he knows precisely how much deception went into the campaign. Tabloids openly declared a crusade on the EU and it was consequently painted as sort of a supervillain, hellbent on destroying the UK and anything British, and Britain was painted in the role of a pathetic little victim unable to resist the EU in any way. They constantly peddled outrageous lies about stuff like Turkey to be admitted as soon as next year, EU army being formed, etc. Michael Dougan was absolutely right to call it dishonesty on an industrial scale.
It's been myths upon myths drilled into public consciousness over the years: (
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/category/euromyths/)
Tony_Tarantula on 2/7/2016 at 08:37
Quote Posted by Starker
Yeah, I think he knows precisely how much deception went into the campaign. Tabloids openly declared a crusade on the EU and it was consequently painted as sort of a supervillain, hellbent on destroying the UK and anything British, and Britain was painted in the role of a pathetic little victim unable to resist the EU in any way. They constantly peddled outrageous lies about stuff like Turkey to be admitted as soon as next year, EU army being formed, etc. Michael Dougan was absolutely right to call it dishonesty on an industrial scale.
It's been myths upon myths drilled into public consciousness over the years: (
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/category/euromyths/)
Hardly conspiracy theory, but it's not as clear cut as they make it. The German backers of the EU have been pushing to Federalize Europe for some time (2001 at least (
https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/germany-floats-plan-federalize-eu)).
Furthermore it's not a new idea. A lot of the original thought leaders whose work led to the European Union were fairly open about wanting to integrate Europe into a single state and a single race((
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_von_Coudenhove-Kalergi#Views_on_race_and_religion)).
Where the propaganda is deceptive is that it's hardly hegemonious. Brussels of course is going to be in favor of it (pure self interest....who in their right minds would be against a proposal that's going to make themselves much more wealthy and powerful?) , but it's hardly an agreed upon, secret agenda. Every other nation involved in the EU has their own opinions. As far as I can tell the Germans are most favorable to the idea because they seem to think that they would be able to dominate the resulting federalized state. It also doesn't mean the EU's powerless. Quite frankly, given the current political and economic situation, the EU needs the UK to survive while the UK just needs the EU to avoid an economic disruption. The UK has the leverage in this relationship.
Tony_Tarantula on 2/7/2016 at 08:39
Quote Posted by SubJeff
It's coming out in floods now and is undeniable. Idiots are feeling they can stay their idiot things on the streets.
A fairly predictable reaction, and best not gratified. Here in the US we had a massive uptick in black supremacist groups (e.g. New Black Panthers) after Obama was elected. If Trump wins the white supremacists will feel emboldened, and if Hillary wins the loony wing of feminism is going to go more insane than they already are (if that's even possible).
Quote:
I was appalled to learn that my parents voted leave, but not surprised. They switched to reading The Daily Mail around 10 or 15 years ago and have becoming increasingly bigoted with all of society's problems resting at immigration. I was recently told by my father than he was at the doctor's recently and there were people speaking foreign languages and enough was enough - standard bigoted crap. Tried to ask him what his opinion was on me living in France where I sometimes have the audacity to speak English in public - no answer. Asked him how he felt about his immigrant son, married to his immigrant wife with their quarter Lebanese, quarter Turkish grandchild - no answer. Asked him whether he had a low opinion of his daughter who was an immigrant in both Australia and New Zealand and who had two half-Indian children with an immigrant to New Zealand - no answer.
That's actually a more complicated issue. In my case I choose to practice what I preach and communicate in German as much as possible while I am here. Having a common language is much more important than people think it is. One unique aspect to the US is that there is an enormous amount of ethnic interbreeding, but what unites the country is having a common language and symbolism: whatever their ethnic background, migrants (until recently) integrate into the local language and culture.
From Economic analyst and historian Martin Armstrong:
Quote:
Trump CORRECTLY articulated the issue that speaking English is assimilation and the strength of the nation. Bush is DEAD WRONG on this issue. All one needs to do is travel to Europe. Ask an American what they are and they will respond something along the lines of, “Half Germen and half Irish.” In Europe, such a combination is extremely rare because they do not speak the same language. I could no more hire someone in the United States as a receptionist to answer the phone only in Japanese any more than I could hire someone in Japan who answered the phone in Spanish.
One of the traits that identified the decline and fall of Rome was the loss of a common language. As more and more people were being attracted to the Roman Empire as we see with the United States today, their failure to learn Latin contributed to the collapse of the Empire exactly as the Biblical story of the Tower of Babel. In the early days, immigrants learned Latin and entered as servants, house masters, and educators. After 180AD, the influx increased where the population of the city of Rome reached 1 million, something that would not be seen until London during the Victorian era. As immigration increased and jobs became more as common workers, the language began to divide taking on dialects mixed with their own language that then set the stage for the Latin based difference between Frankish (French), Anglo tribal variations (English), Spanish, Italian, Greek, and German. A common language enables greater communication and economic strength. Breakup that bond and you lose economic growth resulting in the precise outcome of the Tower of Babel.
Sorry, Bush is very wrong and Trump is correct. What made the Roman Empire last so long was the single language. As Julius Caesar said in war - “Divide and conquer.” If a nation diverts into regional languages, they will lose the bond that holds the nation together. Any empire with multiple languages split according to language. Hello! Look at Ukraine East (Russian) and West (Ukrainian).
Of course, the media takes Bush's side without the slightest bit of question.
faetal on 2/7/2016 at 10:21
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
That's actually a more complicated issue. In my case I choose to practice what I preach and communicate in German as much as possible while I am here. Having a common language is much more important than people think it is.
As someone who has lived in France for 2 years, I can tell you that you are talking out of your anus. Why on earth would I talk to a visiting relative in French which they don't understand? Why on earth would I call my family and talk French which they don't understand? Being annoyed at hearing another person speaking another language to the default one of the country you are in is xenophobia, pure and simple. There is no law and no requirement to only speak the language of the country you are in at all times. I genuinely can not believe you are attempting to validate the notion.
Nicker on 2/7/2016 at 15:12
"Sorry, Bush is very wrong and Trump is correct. What made the Roman Empire last so long was the single language."
News Flash! Academic mistakes cart for horse!