Starker on 2/7/2016 at 15:21
Actually, Greek was pretty much the lingua franca of the ancient world, largely thanks to Alexander. Most of the educated Romans could speak Greek.
Sulphur on 2/7/2016 at 15:24
I hate political debates because politics to me is an entirely unattractive side of human nature. But I'm posting here because wtf is Tony on about. India has 22 - yeah, that's right, 22 - official languages, and at least a hundred more dialects. We've managed to get by regardless of the minority extremist debate on the matter, and we've got plenty of other problems, but structural weakness due to the lack of a common language isn't one of them.
Tony_Tarantula on 2/7/2016 at 15:42
Quote Posted by faetal
As someone who has lived in France for 2 years, I can tell you that you are talking out of your anus. Why on earth would I talk to a visiting relative in French which they don't understand? Why on earth would I call my family and talk French which they don't understand? Being annoyed at hearing another person speaking another language to the default one of the country you are in is xenophobia, pure and simple. There is no law and no requirement to only speak the language of the country you are in at all times. I genuinely can not believe you are attempting to validate the notion.
What I'm trying to say is that there's two things that are easy to conflate emotionally. Foreign languages you hear a lot. My experience is nobody cares until, like have in the states, you get a lot of immigrants who are actively hostile towards learning the native language and refuse to do so.
Quote:
I hate political debates because politics to me is an entirely unattractive side of human nature. But I'm posting here because wtf is Tony on about. India has 22 - yeah, that's right, 22 - official languages, and at least a hundred more dialects. We've managed to get by regardless of the minority extremist debate on the matter, and we've got plenty of other problems, but structural weakness due to the lack of a common language isn't one of them.
And yet somehow, people don't seem to have a difficult time communicating. People in all the major centers are typically capable of speaking Hindi. A solid 41.1% do((
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers_in_India))
Second you're not entirely correct. There's a lot of businesses that have tried to run operations in India and failed in part due to that language situation....that and the Indian government takes protectionist measures that are fairly similar to what Trump proposes, and are more extreme in some way. Local ventures MUST take the form of a partnership with a local company and employ Indian workers to manufacture the goods.
That is why you no longer see cheap Suzuki/Kawasaki motorcycles everywhere in India.
Sulphur on 2/7/2016 at 16:17
Lol, Tony. Maruti Suzuki has been one of the most successful automobile ventures in India for the past 30 goddamn years. The Kawasaki brand has certainly died out, but that's because of competition in general. If there is a language issue to pin this on - and let's be clear, there isn't - it's incredible that despite this supposed major issue, there are currently more BMWs, Mercs, Fords, Hondas, Hyundais, Audis, Toyotas, and Volkswagens in India than there have ever been before.
As far as language goes, people in all the major centres do speak Hindi, along with English, and their local languages. While this is arguably why their grasp of them isn't perfect, the average Indian has studied at least two-three languages at school. I'm the odd exception in choosing to study French and German instead of the local languages.
faetal on 2/7/2016 at 16:24
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
What I'm trying to say is that there's two things that are easy to conflate emotionally. Foreign languages you hear a lot. My experience is nobody cares until, like have in the states, you get a lot of immigrants who are actively hostile towards learning the native language and refuse to do so.
I'm not sure how you'd determine if they were actively hostile. The point here is that my father heard them speaking a different language and got angry because they were doing it. Because he's a xenophobe. He had no idea where they were born, or if they were fluent in English - he just made his assumptions (based on his daily intake of The Daily Mail, the UK's most vile tabloid rag) and then got angry.
If I'm in a similar situation, I usually try to strike up conversation if I have the time and they don't seem too embroiled in anything. You can often find out really interesting things about people's backgrounds and other cultures. But for my Dad, it's easier just to get angry, say asinine things like "I don't feel like I'm in my own country any more" and the like and then the usual bullshit about loss of jobs, stress on the social institutions and wage decrease, none of which are in the control of people who speak another language.
Learning a second language is
fucking hard and it takes a fair bit of courage to try using it before it's decently polished. It's also exhausting over time. You can bet your ass I'll be speaking English with other English speakers when I encounter them. Doesn't detract from my willingness to learn French. I suspect my Dad would probably also get pissed off hearing foreign accents too if I'm honest.
Yakoob on 2/7/2016 at 18:58
That's pretty disturbing, if not entirety surprising. Linked from the article I found another about a lot of it targeting Poles, calling on the "vermin" to leave. It reminded me my brother has been working in the UK for near a decade now, and his situation has to be really uncertain right now.
I just messaged him. Hopefully get a positive response.
Manwe on 2/7/2016 at 19:08
Quote Posted by faetal
Because he's a xenophobe. He had no idea where they were born, or if they were fluent in English - he just made his assumptions (based on his daily intake of The Daily Mail, the UK's most vile tabloid rag) and then got angry.
You should denounce him to the police, that sounds like a serious crime.
So not only do you hate your own country, your own language, your own culture, you also hate your own family. Next logical step is hating yourself. I think you'd find that, unlike you, immigrants are really proud of their culture, language, flag, heritage, history and country of origin.
Sulphur on 2/7/2016 at 19:15
Hating and being disappointed/ashamed of an attitude are very different things. For example, disappointment involves hope, as in a hope that something would not have happened, which is slightly different from hatred. If you're looking to incite emotion on the basis of a strawman, that's not an awfully constructive or smart line of discourse for this particular topic.
faetal on 2/7/2016 at 19:29
Quote Posted by Manwe
You should denounce him to the police, that sounds like a serious crime.
So not only do you hate your own country, your own language, your own culture, you also hate your own family. Next logical step is hating yourself. I think you'd find that, unlike you, immigrants are really proud of their culture, language, flag, heritage, history and country of origin.
I don't hate anything. Hate is a loss of control. I'm ashamed of my father's ignorance. I love the English language. I like some UK culture, such as the film industry, underground music, theatre and art; but the main culture of the masses doesn't go far beyond excessive drinking, fighting and fucking really. I'm proud of humans of all nationality who contribute to the betterment of mankind. Doesn't matter where you are from or what ethnicity you are, so long as you are contributing something. This is largely why I got into medical research.
What's your big contribution Manwe? Wiping spittle from your computer monitor doesn't count by the way.
Renzatic on 3/7/2016 at 01:17
Derp!
