DDL on 20/5/2010 at 14:36
To be fair, the kick in DMoMM was only really overpowered because of the sheer number of handy ledges over instadeath chasms (and, I guess, random walls o'spikes). If the whole thing had been more indoorsy (or at least less cliffy), it would've been less broken.
SubJeff on 20/5/2010 at 22:10
Play it on the hardest level then tell me its broken. The kick won't help you then. There was one room that took me about 100 attempts to clear and it was visceral sword action all the way that did it. The kick is useful in lots of (specific) situations but it's only overpowered on the lower difficulty settings.
Dresden on 20/5/2010 at 22:43
This looks like it's trying way way too hard to be Xtreme-to-the-Max. It would be way better as a goofy Max Hazard or Serious Sam type game.
Pyrian on 20/5/2010 at 22:50
I've lost track of how many times I've played through Dark Messiah (on a variety of difficulty levels, mostly normal and hardcore, though), and what SubjEff just wrote doesn't make any sense. The primary difference in difficulty levels is how much damage you inflict and receive (there's also more waves of enemies in several locations), but it doesn't affect instant-deaths at all. The kick is almost exactly as effective on hardcore as it is on normal, while swordplay is nowhere near as effective (still works if you take the appropriate upgrades, but it's tough). Changing from normal to hardest is almost invariably a change from killing people through damage to killing people through the various instant-death effects. If I spec'd as effectively as possible (helloooo sanctuary) I can barely tell the difference between difficulty levels. In contrast, an archer specialization is really good on normal but pretty useless on hardcore.
steo on 20/5/2010 at 23:02
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Play it on the hardest level then tell me its broken. The kick won't help you then. There was one room that took me about 100 attempts to clear and it was visceral sword action all the way that did it. The kick is useful in lots of (specific) situations but it's only overpowered on the lower difficulty settings.
Bullshit. It's even more overpowered on the harder and hardest difficulty settings, since the enemies get tougher but kicking into spikes/whatever is still an instant death.
SubJeff on 20/5/2010 at 23:02
On normal difficulty because you've less enemies that also do less damage it's much easier to line them up for the one kick insta-deaths. On harder difficulties you often don't have time to do this, especially later in the game, or if you do you're at risk of taking a hit (that wouldn't bother you so much on the lower difficulty settings). And the kick cannot be used endlessly because you tire so with multiple high-damage causing opponents it's a useful tool but its not overpowered, despite still giving insta-kills regardless of difficulty level. This may sound counterintuitive but think about it.
There is a room, close to the end, full of mages and vampire knights. Kicking is all but useless there, and in many other places like it.
Of course if you play the game in a "I'll go in here, scope out the insta-death spikes and try to clear the room by kicking everyone into them" attitude you may find things different. You'd also be spoiling the game for yourself by exploiting the kick and therefore an idiot if you whine about it.
steo on 20/5/2010 at 23:04
So what you mean to say is that the game is easier on easy skill than it is on hard skill?
SubJeff on 20/5/2010 at 23:13
Are you trying to be an imbecile or does it just come naturally?
I'm just talking about the mechanics of the kick and specifically how it's not actually overpowered despite first appearances.
Of course the game is easier on easy than it is on hard. When was there any argument/discussion about that?
gunsmoke on 20/5/2010 at 23:28
Quote Posted by Dresden
This looks like it's trying way way too hard to be Xtreme-to-the-Max. It would be way better as a goofy Max Hazard or Serious Sam type game.
Matt Hazard? That console game? Have you played that? Heard wildly varying opinions on it.
steo on 21/5/2010 at 00:37
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Are you trying to be an imbecile or does it just come naturally?
I'm just talking about the mechanics of the kick and specifically how it's not actually overpowered despite first appearances.
Of course the game is easier on easy than it is on hard. When was there any argument/discussion about that?
My point was: yes it's a bit harder to insta-kick-kill enemies on hard skill. That's because it's hard skill. The kick is still even more overpowered because while it takes however many times more swings to kill an orc on hard, it still takes only one insta-kill. You can still, in far too many cases, take down an enemy in a fraction of the time and with a fraction of the risk by exploiting spike traps and the like. Perhaps there are a few instances where you might have trouble lining up the kicks without first engaging in a little melee combat, but arguing that the kick isn't overpowered on hard is just naive - you haven't been using it right.
