SlyFoxx on 13/11/2011 at 14:41

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I'd begin with a plain old steel string acoustic. Make sure the action (height of strings over the frets) is nice and low so it's not unreasonably hard to play. Too high and you fight the thing. Too low and the strings buzz against the frets. Take a red or orange Dunlop pick (I doubt you will find a music store that does not carry them) and place it under the thin strings at the first fret. The red pick is .5 mm thick, the orange is .6mm. If the orange pick won't stay put under the fret the action is probably too high. If it grabs the red pick and you still have no fret buzzing all the better. As you play up the neck the action will tend to get a little bit higher but if it's a lot different at the 12th fret then the neck's straightness is off. This could be cured by tightening the truss rod.

Make the store person get the instrument right before you buy and don't take any crap about this costing extra dough. No store worth its salt will charge extra for some simple set-up steps on a new instrument.

Buying used can get you a lot of axe for the money but I'd never buy without playing first.

demagogue on 13/11/2011 at 15:25

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Like Antshodan says in his edit, an archtop or hollowbody electric isn't the same as full acoustic + solidbody electric. It's its own thing. I said it's the best of both worlds, but one could see it the other way around, the lesser of each. It's not as loud and full-bodied as a full acoustic because the hollow chamber isn't as big, and you can't push the distortion & thrash like a solid body electric or it'll feedback something awful. Also they can't have a real whammy bar like an electric; you can get one with a Bigsby external bar, but it's kind of ungainly and sounds twangy like 1960s surfer music. (And they can be pricey.) But that's not really the way to look at them anyway, where the "it's its own thing" comes in. Archtops have a really authentic sound for like classic rock, jazz, country, rockabilly, alternative rock... The action (distance between strings & fretboard) is lower like an electric & the guage can be lighter so like PigLick & SE are saying it's easier on the fingers like an electric. Some contemporary bands that famously play with them are the Foo Fighters (David Grohl), Blink 182 (Tom DeLonge), & Oasis (Noel Gallagher), all of which have harder songs so it's not like they can't rock (and I notice they don't use a Bigsby).

I first fell in love with them when I saw the Oasis video for Don't Look Back in Anger. I remember standing in an airport hallway watching it, Gallagher was playing an (http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/9/9/3/566993.jpg) Epiphone Riviera, and I literally stood entranced by that guitar, it was like a revelation, like an icon of the whole retro-chic vibe of that era. (The Dot is the standard variation. They're all variations of the Gibson ES-335 series, double-cut-away f-hole, the premium of which is an ES-355, like BB King's Lucille & what Oasis & Blink 182 use now.) They're just beautiful, and it meant something to me that the guitar captures a kind of spirit. I imagine when people were first entranced by Hendrix they looked at his standard guitar, a Fender Stratocaster, that way. (Or an extreme example is Django Rheinhart & his Selmer acoustic. People that play in his style, or manoche style generally, are extremely partisan for that guitar and will say it's the only way to play it authentically, which of course doesn't mean you can't play it on any other guitar, you can, but that guitar carries that spirit with it.) I guess I'd just say every guitar carries a spirit and history with it that you can tap into if you're into that, but you don't have to and a good guitarists can make any guitar sound great, and I think we even respect guitarists that flaunt other people's idea of authenticity and just play what they like and make it their own, which was tBM's point. It's not like there are hard rules; it's whatever you care about.

Going back, I love them, but I don't want to oversell archtops for what you're looking for. For playing on your bed and writing songs, or playing for friends, a steel stringed acoustic is a very good guitar to have. Or to be good to your fingers and for learning fast runs and soloing, a solid electric is very good. That raises a question; what kind of style do you want to play? If you want to play lead guitar, which means you're playing solos and runs, an electric with its light guage & low action is the way to learn, and archtops are good too (of course you can solo on an steel string acoustic too. Dave Matthews famously used acoustics as his lead guitar.) If you are at all into punk, metal, or headbanging power chords at that gut level, you have to get a solidbody electric. If you want to be a rhythm guitarist, playing the chords that make up the body of a song, then an acoustic or electric or archtop is good. I was happy I started off my Yamaha steel string acoustic to learn, and a good archtop was just a dream guitar for a while (a (http://i40.tinypic.com/4gke15.jpg) Gretsch 6118 Anni Jr for the record). Yeah, no hard rules, just think about what you care about and go with a guitar that speaks to you. And there's something to be said for going to a guitar shop and holding a guitar in your hands to see if it feels right.

Tomi on 13/11/2011 at 23:12

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goddammit piglick, stop messing around with my mind :mad:
seriously though, thanks!
Actually, my first impression when playing electric was that it was harder to play, because the strings were so close to each other. Obviously barre chords for example were a lot easier though, which was nice. However, I'm sure that it just takes some time to get used to, and as my fingers are kinda thin it shouldn't be a big problem for me (how on earth do people with big fingers play electric guitar? :p), but I was wondering if the width of the neck varies a lot between different guitars?

A used guitar would probably be quite ideal for me, of course I would have to find some trustworthy seller that doesn't try to sell me some broken crap though. :p I suppose you would never consider buying a guitar online either then? The prices over here are pretty high, but I've seen some tempting deals online...

I also like Oasis (although I was always more of a <s>Blur</s> Boo Radleys man), I grew up listening to a lot of the Britpop era bands (Pulp, Suede, Manic Street Preachers), so I suppose I'd want to play something like that. I listen to a lot of "indie"/singer-songwriter kinda stuff too, Elliott Smith and Wilco and Super Furry Animals and so on... Of the older "classic" bands and artists I've always liked The Beatles, The Beach Boys, David Bowie, Queen, T-Rex... Well, that should give you some idea! (As you can see, I'm not really into metal or punk or anything...) Looking at that list of artists, I suppose that a steel acoustic would do just fine (apart from with most Queen songs), but something more to spice things up a little could possibly be nice.

Playing lead guitar isn't really my thing (at least not yet), I haven't learnt to play any solos, and just looking at most of the tabs makes me feel dizzy. I think I'm definitely going to need some lessons or some really good advice before I dwell into that part of guitar playing. That's why I was thinking of leaving electric guitar out this time around - I could then get one when I've become a better player and learn to play all those cool solos and stuff. :cool: So far I've only played rhythm guitar, so I guess I fall into the "playing on your bed and writing songs + playing for friends" category...

Oh, and that Epiphone Riviera and the Gretsch 6118 look totally awesome :D

Volitions Advocate on 16/11/2011 at 06:16

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I'm late to this party and I post with the danger that I'm repeating things. Some good posts so far but maybe a little bit more clarity might help.

Classical guitars are primarily used for Art-Music and flamenco (art-music encompassing everything from the renaissance to the romantic eras, so in a nutshell.. yeah sure. classical)
They use Nylon strings and use a particular style. Most classical guitars are total crap. A decent one is a bit more money and involves a lot of playing around to pick one. Classical guitars are BAD ASS and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. However, if you're trying to be Aaron Lewis, they wont be the guitar you're looking for.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAg8VHuXNKU)

Steel Strings acoustics are your every day campfire, living room, oasis cover guitar. if you find one that sounds good and feels good, get it. forget the name on the headstock. They vary so much, not all martins are the cats ass and not all galvestons (never heard of them right?) are crap.

They also come in many different shapes:
http://www.nomenclaturo.com/wp-content/uploads/Acoustic-Guitar-Shape-Chart.jpg

Find whats comfortable for you.

Acoustic-Electric guitars can be regular Dreadnought style acoustic guitars. Smaller folk style bodies, or classical guitars. If you want to be able to play your guitar through an amp, go ahead and get one, they are the same as acoustic gutiars, they just have a piezo-electric pickup and a battery powered amplifier in it. Or if you can't find one you like, get a regular acoustic and you can fit it with a pickup later.

Archtops come in different forms too. You can have an acoustic archtop:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fZzYPRqsY_A/SncGyryZGkI/AAAAAAAAA9E/rfsLwf-OW2Q/s400/Gibson%2BL7-C%2BAcoustic%2BArchtop%2BGuitar%2B1.jpg

A hollow body electric archtop could be just the same as the guitar above with an electric guitar pickup installed
http://www.patsguitars.com/images/auctions/clipper/gal.jpg

or a thinner, "hollow-body" electric.
http://www.leighsmith.com/sites/default/files/images/Gretsch.jpg

These last 2 examples are technically electric guitars, just to note the confusion. An archtop can be acoustic, hollow body electric, or even a solid body electric

solid bodies are your typical rock guitars. Fenders, Gibson, PRS, etc.
Archtop solid bodies are like Les pauls. the top is carved and there is an arch to the contour of the body. Usually these are referred to as "Carved top" rather than archtop to avoid confusion.
(http://goocarts.com/3dburst/top_7.jpg) <------- image too big to stay within forum rules

Elecric solid body guitars come in many different forms as well, aside from flat top and carved top versions. Again, buy one you like, dont listen to anybody else. If it feels good and sounds good, get it. People will tell you to all sorts of things like play it unplugged first (which is a good idea actually) and feel the vibrations int he head stock or put the back up to your ear etc. Don't listen to anybody, find one you love. Gibsons are notorious for having the worst guitars ever mixed in with their best. Just because it is a limited edition les paul that costs $3500 does not mean it is better than the Hamer at your local shop that costs $400. Gibson is the most inconsistent guitar maker on the planet.

Also not not all solid body electrics are really a solid body. Some are chambered, which means basically they are a hollow body without F-holes, so they don't look hollow, and you never see inside the resonating chambers. Others have a pseudo-honeycomb pattern routed to the inside of the body, this makes them lighter, and more resonant than normal electric solid bodys. Which may or may not be desirable.

Don't shy away from an electric guitar because of the acoustic campfire singing idea. Guys like Eric Clapton went electric along with the beatles and didn't need to play loud harsh powerchords to harness the awesomeness of electric guitar. See if you can find a guitar with a wider nut (the thing with grooves in it to hold the strings at the end of the fretboard before they go into the tuning pegs). If the nut is wider then you've got more room for you fingers.

Here's where I share my opinion, you don't have to listen to this, since you need to make up your own, but its here in case you're interested.

I will never buy a Gibson. For reasons I've previously stated. I'm kind of a guitar snob anyway and I don't like low quality stuff, unless it is GOOD low quality stuff. So I'm partial to the custom jobs. Which cost insane amounts of money and you have to wait up to a year to get your guitar. The Gibson custom shop has a waiting time of at least months every time I check. And it'll cost you 5 - 7K USD. Dean and fender have similar wait times and prices. You could have a down payment on a house for that. I've started building my own guitars and have decided to never actually buy a guitar off-the-shelf ever again, unless it's a Dean, cause they're usually pretty awesome, and their budget gutiars (Dean EVO) are outstanding. 300 - 600 USD price range.

If down the road you get ambitious and want the perfect electric guitar, try a custom shop that isn't affiliated with any big name. I get all my stuff from (www.warmoth.com). I've built 2 guitars with their stuff (3 if you include the first one being stolen and me having to rebuild it). They rival the quality of anything that comes out of the Big name custom shops, and the most expensive one was $1500 for something comparable to a $6000 guitar from a custom shop. Just needed a little elbow grease. No sawing or painting involved, just some soldering and a few pilot hole drilling. I've come to know my guitars much better after building my own. I'd even consider myself a bit of an expert, as far as electric solid bodys go.

The 2 that I built:
This one cost me about $500
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1927/58/19/517473612/n517473612_1291327_2091.jpg

This one was about $1500
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/190406_4533323612_517473612_83919_6782_n.jpg

I don't know what else to say, but I've probably already said way too much, so if you (or anybody) have any questions, I could probably answer them.

Tomi on 17/11/2011 at 01:29

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Wow, big thanks for the detailed answer VA. Those two guitars that you've built look pretty awesome, by the way!

So, I've been looking at different guitars online for the last few days, and one guitar that I find particularly interesting is the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphone_Dot) Epiphone Dot. It's a rather cheap guitar but apparently good value for your money, and I've mostly read good things about it. But there's something that I still find a bit confusing. The Epiphone Dot is an archtop electric guitar (but listed under "semi-acoustic" guitars in some places!) with a semi-hollow body - does that mean that you can actually play it unplugged too, or would it most likely sound totally crap? That would be like getting two guitars for the price of one. :p

Then there's the slightly more expensive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphone_Casino) Epiphone Casino with a hollow body... How exactly does the hollow/semi-hollow thingy affect the sound of the guitar?

I'll have a look at some steel string acoustics too when I have time to visit the local music shop this weekend or some time next week, but those archtop guitars look so pretty. :p