ZylonBane on 4/5/2006 at 17:23
Quote Posted by Random_Taffer
There are some people who just really hate T3 and there is absolutely nothing we can do or say to make them think positively in any way about it.
And there are some people who are so brain-damaged that they constantly fall back on this tired old chestnut in lieu of an actual argument.
Domarius' mistake was inanely dragging TDS into this discussion in the first place. The problem here is not the absence of a dialog box on a map exit point, the problem is that some TDP/TMA missions were designed without a "get to exit" objective, so they just end automatically once all objectives are satisfied.
Of those TDP/TMA missions that
do require you to get to an exit, the exit point is always pretty much impossible to stumble into accidentally. I certainly never found myself wishing for a confirmation dialog.
C3BO on 4/5/2006 at 19:20
Quote Posted by theBlackman
Actually, I disagree. One of the main points in TDP, GOLD, and TMA is explore everything before you go running off to a new area. Too many people are on a speed run to beat the game, and as is evidenced here they only beat themselves.
If you fuck up, you fuck up. You can always opt out with the ESC and Restart the mission. In this case he knows the ins and outs and can probably redo it in less time than he/she spent bitching about it.
completely agree with you! :thumb:
*thread is about "how can rhoelzl make a "bigtime" with last bit of loot while there is an "ending problem when he tries to go outside" ". so in this case i repeat what i said. if you obsessed so much about that last bit, just REPLAY IT. cuz theres no other way to do it...
my opinion about confirmation box; i dont really like it...
rhoelzl on 4/5/2006 at 19:23
Quote Posted by Random_Taffer
I must admit I was very surprised when the sheriff had been murdered.
true, that was a nice surprise. but this time i already knew ;-) and it is a classic mansion mission, and i am not a fan of those.
Quote:
There are some people who just really hate T3 and there is absolutely nothing we can do or say to make them think positively in any way about it.
yes, i also think that this is the real problem here. i personally like TDS better than TMA. my order of preference is TGold, T2X, TDS, TMA. i think that TDS definitly has a better story than TMA, and more variation in the mission design.
i can well understand that people were disappointed with deus ex 2, but i really cannot see why they are disappointed with TDS. of course, it has its annoyences, but every game has those, and when a game has a good story i can totally live with that.
Random_Taffer on 4/5/2006 at 19:48
Yes! I really like how the ending came full circle in TDS with Tdp/gold. It's like they put something in there for the old school taffers to pick up on.
I liked the end.
Domarius on 5/5/2006 at 03:01
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Of those TDP/TMA missions that
do require you to get to an exit, the exit point is always pretty much impossible to stumble into accidentally. I certainly never found myself wishing for a confirmation dialog.
Obviously it was good luck. It seems the Blackmail mission does require a confirmation dialogue, since it's preventing him from going elsewhere in the mission.
Without a confirmation dialogue box, the mapper has to think of how to place the exit point close enough that it's not tedious to walk there, and yet far enough that it won't stop them from getting to other places if they want to get more money before leaving.
I assure you, bringing in T3's dialogue box as an example was no mistake, it's an example of good user interface design. How would you like it if MS Word quit on you just because you typed "Scincerely, Zylonbane"? Obviously you're at the end of typing the letter, so OF COURSE you want to quit, right?
@C3BO - same attitude as ZB - "Since it didn't happen to me, it can't be a problem". As a player you can have the luxury of thinking that way, but as developer, I can't.
The fact is there is a potential problem, and rhoelzl encountered it - there could be 1000's in loot out there, it doesn't matter that in his specific case it's only a few dollars. And I bet the OM designers had to specifically place exit points so they wouldn't cause this problem - on Blackmail, they screwed it up.
All this could be avoided with a simple yes/no question on exit - but obviously you consider yourself too precious to click one button at the end of each mission.
Well, it's not my job to liberate you guys from your closed minded views, and thankfully, its not very likely you guys will end up making games for a living, like myself, so this is the last I'm going to say on the matter.
C3BO on 5/5/2006 at 12:04
Quote Posted by Domarius
....
Well, it's not my job to liberate you guys from your closed minded views, and thankfully, its not very likely you guys will end up making games for a living, like myself, so this is the last I'm going to say on the matter.
closed minded views?? what are you talking about?? just read the thread!!! read first question and then try to make a criticism.
for the subject you are talking about; if you dont have the "luxury" of thinking what i think, then just dont think...becuse I think, that dialog box kills the game's atmosphere. It makes you (me at least) feel you actually PLAYing the game instead of making you feel you are living in the game.
and i also think its not so easy to make a critcism like "they screwed it up" for who make that WHOLE game series...youre a developer you say, so you have to be more polite on your posts i think. because you know i have a "luxury" of thinking...and obivously you dont
bah!:nono:
ZylonBane on 5/5/2006 at 14:45
Quote Posted by Domarius
Obviously it was good luck. It seems the Blackmail mission does require a confirmation dialogue, since it's preventing him from going elsewhere in the mission.
Now you're just being dense, intentionally or otherwise. Please attempt to recall that the problem here is due to crossing a trigger point well
within the mission's physical space, NOT out at the boundaries. Your much-blathered confirmation dialog would be useless in this situation, because selecting "NO" would mean that either they could never finish the mission (because all objectives are already ticked off, hence the dialog would never come up again), or that they would have to return to the Truart estate and re-cross the escape trigger (which would just be stupid).
The only way to fix Blackmail would be to move the escape objective to a specific location
outside the Truart estate.
Random_Taffer on 5/5/2006 at 14:50
I'm quite fond of when fm's end when you 'frob' something.
Like a bed. Or a gate/door to exit the area.
To deal with the few seconds it takes to end the mission once complete you could have a gate open slowly and the mission would end before you could go in. Not unlike Frobber's Kotp miss-1.
:)
Mortal Monkey on 5/5/2006 at 18:53
Quote Posted by rhoelzl
if understand that correctly that would just delete all loot. where would i have to enter this? in dromed? or can i use those commands as some kind of cheatcodes INSIDE the game? and would not the loot just disappear instead of being added to my inventory? thanks!
Yes, yes, no and yes. I was actually just making fun of you and your magic dromed.
Dromed is a level and gamesys editor, and while you could modify the Blackmail OM or dark.gam to give you all the loot when you load the level, your savegames would become corrupted.
Anyway, it looks like you're out of luck. Thief 2 does have a console, but the only command usefull for cheating is "win_mission", and it is bound to Ctrl+Alt+Shift+End by default anyway.
Luthien on 5/5/2006 at 21:36
Quote Posted by rhoelzl
i am just replaying T2 and am currently in the "blackmail" mission. unfortunately, i forgot a bit of loot in one of the houses outside truarts mansion. now i have all objectives completed, so as soon as i try to get to that house, the mission ends :(
is there any way of getting that last bit of loot without having to replay the whole mission?
Maybe:
* Enter the exit zone.
* You have a couple of seconds before the mission ends. Spend them heading towards the missing piece of loot.
* Right before the mission ends, save the mission.
* Reload the mission. I've never tried it in T2, but in the training mission in T1 (and I am quite sure it works in all other T1 missions too), the mission-ends-timer is restartet. In other words, you get a couple of seconds to keep playing the mission.
* Repeat until you have the missing piece of loot.
