Cigam on 30/11/2013 at 09:52
"Gamers, bereft of imagination, hate this because "it's the same map twice and I want new things wahhh"
I agree that the location itself is a good one. But that does not mean I want to replay it in the same game twice if there is no significant difference.
I have played T2 three times so it is not as I played it once then decided I never wanted to revisit the missions. Just not in the same playthrough.
And if I did, I would just use the replay button in the menu.
SlyFoxx on 30/11/2013 at 14:05
Muzman makes a very good point.
ZylonBane on 30/11/2013 at 15:32
Quote Posted by Muzman
Casing the Joint/Masks is something everyone hates and will never understand why.
No, you're perfectly capable of understanding why, you're just being deliberately contrarian.
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It really seems to demonstrate that gamers are just poking buttons on some Skinner box to get a reward. They're not really involved in any way, they just want to get to the end, get new things etc. Quite sad.
Oh hi, how lovely a view you must have from your high horse. Can you see my house from there? Can you see me flipping you off? I'm doing it as hard as I can.
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The name ought to tell you what's going on anyway.
So that makes it okay then. If they'd included a mission titled, "Two Hours of Tedious Mind-Numbing Boredom", by your logic we'd have no right to complain then, because hey the name tells us what's going on, right?
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I can guess how they came up with it: there were a lot of complaints of how hard it is to go into a level blind in Thief.
Nice theory, except for the part where nobody complains about that ever.
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Gamers, bereft of imagination, hate this because "it's the same map twice and I want new things wahhh".
Now you're just being gobsmackingly stupid. In 99% of all level-based games, once you finish the current level, they move you on to a new,
different level. They don't say "Well that was fun, let's do it again!" Furthermore, most taffers HATE HATE HATE forced ghosting, so immediately throwing them back into a map that they have very fresh and very negative feelings toward virtually guaranteed that Masks would not be positively received.
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So, I don't get it.
Yes, you do get it. If you don't get it, you have brain damage.
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It's a great level ... and actually seems exactly like something Garrett would do. Take control of the situation rather than just blundering from one thing to the next.
Except for every single other mission in the entire series, where he does exactly that. So really, it's nothing at all like what Garrett would do.
SlyFoxx on 1/12/2013 at 11:42
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Oh hi, how lovely a view you must have from your high horse....
He shoots. He puts it over the backboard...
and lands in popcorn machine.
Muzman on 1/12/2013 at 22:18
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Oh hi, how lovely a view you must have from your high horse. Can you see my house from there? Can you see me flipping you off? I'm doing it as hard as I can.
It's delightful, thank you.
I cannot see that. Hang on I'll get my ginormous telescope cast from pure awesome (it would be
very expensive, if you could buy one).
Oh yes! I see now. Don't strain those joints. You're gonna need 'em.
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So that makes it okay then. If they'd included a mission titled, "Two Hours of Tedious Mind-Numbing Boredom", by your logic we'd have no right to complain then, because hey the name tells us what's going on, right?
No. First it would have to be tedious mind numbing boredom. Which it isn't. The point this all hinges on is whether or not repetition is bad, not that repetition of bad things is good.
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Nice theory, except for the part where nobody complains about that ever.
I vaguely recall it being a point of complaint in the past. Not among the hard core by any means. But I think I remember Stellmach or someone talking about it back in the day. Difficulty with navigation has always been a tricky thing to balance in games. I'd say it's exactly why game levels are simplified to hell and riddled with visual aids today. Letting people run around a house with few guards to learn the layout, alarms and secret passages before you tackle it when when filled with enemies is an interesting way to address the problem without dumbing down level architecture (or trying to address the problem anyway)
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Now you're just being gobsmackingly stupid. In 99% of all level-based games, once you finish the current level, they move you on to a new,
different level. They don't say "Well that was fun, let's do it again!"
I wager there's way more variety there than you're allowing, but I would accept the common sense sees it this way.
And even if it were the case, I don't think convention alone makes the expectation valid. Scripts are allowed to be changed for one level now and then.
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Furthermore, most taffers HATE HATE HATE forced ghosting, so immediately throwing them back into a map that they have very fresh and very negative feelings toward virtually guaranteed that Masks would not be positively received.
Yes this is probably why people hate it. Although they went to some lengths to make it pretty easy to deal with, the systems are a little buggy too and likely to fail you mysteriously, which can be frustrating.
None of which makes it case of pointless filler, which a lot of people besides our friend here have called it.
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Yes, you do get it. If you don't get it, you have brain damage.
It's not brain damage. It's a just a little altitude sickness.
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Except for every single other mission in the entire series, where he does exactly that. So really, it's nothing at all like what Garrett would do.
Well maybe it'd be something if he stopped blundering from one thing to the next for a little while. Having a job in two parts is slightly exceptional for the series. It being quite so shocking seems excessive. Yeah other missions change things up in the middle. Or if they repeat, the changes are bigger. This one is a scenario in two parts at two different times. There's rational fictional support for this stuff. It's not just there for the hell of it. If there's any game series that has earned the ability to push different ways to use space- rather than it merely being part of a linear sequence that you must use only once, because games, -it's got to be this one. (and then the sequel is filled with hubs and would have been largely open, had the planned follow up been made).
People can indeed dislike things for all kinds of reasons and that can then manifest in all kinds of ways. If the hurdle for people here genuinely is that the level repeats and you're not supposed to do that (rather than they hate ghosting, but I like it, or they hate Gervasius' house, but I like it), then no, I don't get it. I get where it comes from, but I don't get not leaving it aside in this instance (and I'd hope the problem is actually elsewhere).
SubJeff on 1/12/2013 at 23:10
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
In 99% of all level-based games, once you finish the current level, they move you on to a new,
different level. They don't say "Well that was fun, let's do it again!"
There are lots of games where you revisit levels. Sometimes it's because you have new abilities or tools that let you access more of the level, e.g. in Metroid.
Brother Inquisitor on 2/12/2013 at 13:16
"Casing"/"Masks" is easily the worst level in the entire series. It's like some fan's piss-poor "My first DromEd"-attempt, thanks to nonsensical objectives (If a guard so much as hears your balls bouncing in "Casing", it's instant game over. But that doesn't stop you from being able to cleanse the place Lancelot-style in the following level...), boring architecture and overall glitchiness. It's not the repetition that I mind (Hell, Courier and Ambush are the EXACT SAME LEVEL, but at least that one was well-designed and fun). But it is all too obvious that Casing/Masks was not only filler, but also hastily cobbled together before LGS was shut down.
Starker on 2/12/2013 at 19:05
Casing/Masks is a pretty weak level in retrospect, but for me the worst level is easily Thieves' Guild. I think that was the only level I disliked on the first playthrough.
apostrophe on 2/12/2013 at 20:02
Come to think of it, yeah, both missions were unnecessary.
Mind you, both missions together, as they were. Because... in my mind, I remember playing one or the other, and it is a good memory.
In Casing, it was a much more invisible and cunning playthrough (although I played the whole game in the ghost style, albeit not sucessful at all times) having to look for the secrets entries.
In Masks, I felt more agressive, with an objective in sight - both the high (expert) loot and the masks. Also, the estate design, with the many wooden beams felt delightful to traverse.
BUT, when thinking of one after the other, yeah. I actually feel like I wasted my time, going through all that tile, cameras again.
FatSpy on 2/12/2013 at 21:09
Quote Posted by Starker
Casing/Masks is a pretty weak level in retrospect, but for me the worst level is easily Thieves' Guild. I think that was the only level I disliked on the first playthrough.
Why?
