SlyFoxx on 2/12/2013 at 22:41
Quote Posted by FatSpy
Why?
It's the general opinion of the forum that "Guild" is needlessly large and complicated to navigate thus making it unnecessarily tedious.
Starker on 2/12/2013 at 23:04
Quote Posted by FatSpy
Why?
It was very long time ago, but I think it was mostly because I couldn't get a sense of the place. Actually, I tend to get lost in that level to this day.
FatSpy on 3/12/2013 at 03:56
Quote Posted by Starker
It was very long time ago, but I think it was mostly because I couldn't get a sense of the place. Actually, I tend to get lost in that level to this day.
Oh. I couldn't really see a reason to hate that level over any other level so I was a bit confused.
Rope Arrow on 3/12/2013 at 20:16
Huh. Very interesting...
Strangely enough, Casing the Joint was easily one of my favorite missions in T2, in conjunction with Masks. It never even occurred to me that someone wouldn't like it. Personally, if I was sneaking in somewhere that someone else did not want me to be, I would like to get to know the place first. Go in while the risk is comparatively low so that I can get the layout, get a feel for the patterns, draw detailed maps to pore over them later, get to know the place as well as my own house. That's exactly what I felt like I was doing in Casing the Joint. And it made Masks even more fun for me, because for once, I actually knew where I was going, could navigate with confidence, and plan my route accordingly. But then, I do relate to this in real life as well. Whenever I have occasion to spend a fair bit of time in a particular building (A church, a school, a convention center), I will explore it as much as I can, finding out which doors are locked, which rooms lead into where, the quickest exits. When I have occasion to come back, it means that I can navigate quickly around, and know where certain resources are when I need them.
Although granted, within the gameplay of T2, this isn't in any way necessary. In a consequence-free videogame, a forced ghost mission does create the situation where the scouting mission is more difficult and intense than the objective you're scouting for. So I can see where people come from here. I also think it would have been cool to have another mission between the two. Then it would be more of a memory test, and less of playing the same mission twice in a row.
jay pettitt on 3/12/2013 at 21:40
I'm guessing LGS were contracted to deliver a game with x number of levels for y number of dollars in z amount of days, fully expecting that later in the process y number of dollars and z number of days would be enlarged by an amount more suitable to produce x number of levels at a reasonable quality, as I imagine is pretty common in that line of work - but then had to scrabble about a bit when additional dollars and weeks were not forthcoming.
ZylonBane on 3/12/2013 at 23:02
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
I'm guessing LGS were contracted to deliver a game with x number of levels
That guess is dumb.
jay pettitt on 3/12/2013 at 23:11
Why so? Other than x not being a number.
Cigam on 4/12/2013 at 07:52
Quote Posted by NuEffect
There are lots of games where you revisit levels. Sometimes it's because you have new abilities or tools that let you access more of the level, e.g. in Metroid.
They are usually optional, and you can have a "rest" inbetween by playing new content.
Plus often you can just dip in and out looking for that one item or going for the one doorway that was inaccessible the first time because you hadn't yet unlocked the "access inaccessible doors" upgrade.
All a far cry from having to complete several new objectives and re-scour through all the level you've just scoured through, to get loot that is needed for the next mission.
Cigam on 4/12/2013 at 08:02
Quote Posted by Rope Arrow
Personally, if I was sneaking in somewhere that someone else did not want me to be, I would like to get to know the place first. Go in while the risk is comparatively low so that I can get the layout, get a feel for the patterns, draw detailed maps to pore over them later, get to know the place as well as my own house.
Nothing prevents you from doing all that in Masks though does it? You can play any mission that way if you want.
Just out of interest, do you do this for other missions? Case and map Bafford's manor before hitting replay and playing it "for real"?
If you do that is your choice but it shouldn't be enforced game design.
You don't even need to hit replay. Just case and explore with or without ghosting, THEN play to complete the objectives, all within the same mission playthrough.
apostrophe on 4/12/2013 at 19:33
Hm.
Like someone said above, Garrett's been to many a- dangerous jobs, and did it all on the fly, based on visual reconnassance and bribed maps alone. The whole Casing the joint appears almost caprichous thinking on these terms.
BUT: I do say, that it would be interesting to, optionally, play the visual recon part, orbiting the mission site, a night before, on a street view, and also by the thieves highway. Also optional would be to have the players memorize and even write down remarks about it. I'd love it, maybe.
although, perhaps this would make it a lot more thief simulation, less streamlined.
