sh0ck3r on 19/10/2008 at 20:26
a decade ago, I recall that on the TTLG boards there was a strong undercurrent of opinion that while Shock 2 was great, it was merely a shadow of the original and that Thief was the better modern LGS game.
Now Shock 2 seems immortalized here and Thief appears to be discussed less. is it just that a) the past generation of elitists are gone or is it that b) pepople have come to their senses or c) the relative mediocrity of Bioshock has elevated Shock 2 in the minds of people here (i.e. one day when Bioshock 2 arrives, we'll be extolling the good ol' days of Bioshock; Fallout 3 will be dismissed for a few years before everybody embraces it)?
june gloom on 19/10/2008 at 21:27
I think it's mostly column A (the new elitists are here, and we still insist that spades are shovels). It's clearly been a very long time since you've been on TTLG and obviously things change; I've only been here since 2004 and I've only been a regular poster since 2006 but even then the TTLG of back then was different from what it is now. I suspect CommChat and 4chan as being somewhat of an influence, but in general discourse is a bit nastier than people seem to remember it being. I admit I'm part of that nastiness, but I have a tendency to call out stupid bullshit when I see it.
As to change of opinion towards SS/Thief, believe it or not there are some people here who've never played System Shock, Thief or even Deus Ex, which makes you wonder how the hell they ended up here.
addink on 19/10/2008 at 23:09
I remember a less busy but overall nicer General Gaming with moderator-at-the-time Aardvark purposely posting interesting links just to keep this corner of the forums alive. ahhh... Good Times.
I might be mistaken but most threads then were not about opposing personal opinions (that was CommChat material). Most threads were about ideas, concepts and recommendations. Sure opinions were given, but most were elaborated on.
Also if a game was announced, people seemed more enthusiastic, not immediately dismissing anything.
Also there was less regurgitation of topics, but that might be the direct cause of the opposing personal opinions thing.
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Anyway, you missed option d): We've had the discussions. And just because tastes may (and should) differ, the discussions are not worth having over and over. Perhaps we've grown up.
Perhaps we don't care that much, since relative to the rest Shock2 is brilliant. That would be c) then, although I don't think BioShock alone has anything to do with it.
And indeed a) is the case too.
I still think System Shock is way better than System Shock 2.
For some reason Shock 2 has gained fame in the media. Not undeservedly: it's better than a lot of titles topping it in the top100s out there. Given the original's dated graphics and sound, I doubt the original will ever gain as much respect as it deserves.
Mr.Duck on 19/10/2008 at 23:11
In my days men were men and women too.
Hmmph...young wippersnappers....
june gloom on 19/10/2008 at 23:14
When men were men, women were men, and the kids were cops!
sh0ck3r on 20/10/2008 at 00:33
and one of the main arguments for shock 1 being superior is the more substantial/meaningful hacking?
june gloom on 20/10/2008 at 01:00
I like both for their respective strengths, though SS1's control scheme gets more and more outdated with every passing year.
Shadowcat on 20/10/2008 at 01:15
Quote Posted by addink
Anyway, you missed option d): We've had the discussions. And just because tastes may (and should) differ, the discussions are not worth having over and over.
That's my bet too. SS2 does seem to be the more famous game, and with it being the more modern of the two (graphics, control scheme), I don't see that changing.
So pretty much all newcomers will be here because of SS2. Many (perhaps most) will never actually play the original all the way through, or if they do they will still be more likely to prefer the sequel (because that was the one they played first, or because of graphics/controls, or because they actually do consider it the superior game, but I suspect the odds are stacked against SS1).
There are still plenty of us here who think System Shock is easily the better game but, as addlink says, by this point we've discussed that about as much as we're ever going to.
Muzman on 20/10/2008 at 02:05
Quote Posted by sh0ck3r
a decade ago, I recall that on the TTLG boards there was a strong undercurrent of opinion that while Shock 2 was great, it was merely a shadow of the original and that Thief was the better modern LGS game.
Now Shock 2 seems immortalized here and Thief appears to be discussed less. is it just that a) the past generation of elitists are gone or is it that b) pepople have come to their senses or c) the relative mediocrity of Bioshock has elevated Shock 2 in the minds of people here (i.e. one day when Bioshock 2 arrives, we'll be extolling the good ol' days of Bioshock; Fallout 3 will be dismissed for a few years before everybody embraces it)?
You're right mostly. But I don't recall SS2 being decried all that much. It was separated enough in time and game generations that it didn't matter that much. Plus it was really good. Perhaps I have forgotten
Thief 2 copped a bit of a pasting initially, but that has tempered over the years. The criticisms of it haven't gone away but the vehemence has (plus we then got Thief: DS to kick around instead). Also the population changed a fair bit as Thief 2 brought new people to the series. Those people generally found the game they played first to be the best, unsurprisingly. So we end up with battles over the inclusion of zombies and monsters vs robots and which is 'true to Thief' etc.
I can't see this happening with Bioshock though. Its fans generally hang out elsewhere and have plenty of such places to go and never the twain shall meet. Bioshock2 can only really go up in estimation if it builds on the first one in any meaningful way.
Yakoob on 20/10/2008 at 02:10
Quote Posted by Muzman
I can't see this happening with Bioshock though. Its fans generally hang out elsewhere and have plenty of such places to go and never the twain shall meet. Bioshock2 can only really go up in estimation if it builds on the first one in any meaningful way.
OH MY GOD. Imagine couch-bound frat boys with a beer in hand arguing about the lacking ethical morality in Bioshock 2.
amazing :eek:
