Choosing a Stationary Character (Mesh vs. BIN w/Examples) - by Derspegn
Derspegn on 27/1/2019 at 02:00
Quote Posted by john9818a
Why not just make the lute a part of the mesh? In Assassins the servant with the tray was all one mesh and no attachments needed.
That's a good idea, and something I've also considered. I wonder, though if it would be better to position the lute while the mesh has arms outstretched to the side or after the body is repositioned.
john9818a on 27/1/2019 at 05:03
If you add the lute to the AI's hand I would think the lute should be oriented in a way that the motion places the hand & lute correctly in front of the AI.
One thing that you might have already considered is that the first frame and last frame of the motion should arrive physically at the same place, and the motion should include the AI moving to one position and back to the original position. Its been a while since I used the motion editor, and on today's resolutions it almost requires a microscope to see the stick figure's limbs. To me its hard to see the limbs rotate. Anyway all of the motion values should be the same in the first and last frame to make the motion seemless. You could probably get away with the last frame being the same as the second frame since in a loop the first frame will appear again after the last frame.
Derspegn on 27/1/2019 at 15:35
The motion database needs the .MI and .MC files. I'm trying to see if I need to change the .MC file somehow in order to change the motion. It appears that these files are required (.MI) and referenced (.MC), but I wanted to see if I could test an update of the database.
As per instructions, in order to update the motion database, I brought over files (with updated femturnh.MI) from my Thief 2 install for making the FM and put makmdb.exe in a separate install which contains the files "motions" and "MSchema".
!make.mdb.cmd was placed into "Cmds" in the same install.
The default motiondb.bin was copied into a "backup" folder in the test install.
In Command Prompt, I navigated to the T2 install for testing and typed Makmdb [motiondb.bin]. I also tried Makmdb [motiondb]. In either case, the motiondb.bin did not update, and no Nmotiondb.bin file was created.
I have never opened AdvancedBow.mos, so I'm unsure about the "Undefined Tag" message.
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https://i.imgur.com/M8Fw48h.pngjohn9818a on 28/1/2019 at 05:34
I dont like answering when I can't reference my pc, but alphbetically I believe AdvBow is the first motion tag and there should be an additional file tags.moc that contains just the motion tags. Makmdb.exe is probably looking for this file and bails out because its not present in your test folder.
Derspegn on 28/1/2019 at 06:11
Quote Posted by john9818a
I dont like answering when I can't reference my pc, but alphbetically I believe AdvBow is the first motion tag and there should be an additional file tags.moc that contains just the motion tags. Makmdb.exe is probably looking for this file and bails out because its not present in your test folder.
I just checked the MSchema folder in my test install and tags.moc is present. What could the error be from then?
PinkDot on 28/1/2019 at 09:47
Quote Posted by Derspegn
In Command Prompt, I navigated to the T2 install for testing and typed Makmdb [motiondb.bin]. I also tried Makmdb [motiondb]. In either case, the motiondb.bin did not update, and no Nmotiondb.bin file was created.
Do I understand you correctly - you're running makmdb.exe from the Thief folder? You shouldn't - from your screenshot, you should run it from your (...)/Motion Workshop folder, wherever it is.
Quote:
I'm trying to see if I need to change the .MC file somehow in order to change the motion. It appears that these files are required (.MI) and referenced (.MC), but I wanted to see if I could test an update of the database.
If you're modifying the flags only, then modifying .MI file should be enough. Its corresponding, undmodified .MC file still needs to be present in motions folder when you run makmdb.exe, of course. MC file contains motion channels, MI is the meta-information of the motion, btw.
Derspegn on 28/1/2019 at 11:47
Quote Posted by PinkDot
Do I understand you correctly - you're running makmdb.exe from the Thief folder? You shouldn't - from your screenshot, you should run it from your (...)/Motion Workshop folder, wherever it is.
Ok, I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying. I thought the motions and MSchema folders were to go in the Thief folder, and makmdb was to be placed in them but not placed or run in the main T2 folder.
Quote:
If you're modifying the flags only, then modifying .MI file should be enough. Its corresponding, undmodified .MC file still needs to be present in motions folder when you run makmdb.exe, of course. MC file contains motion channels, MI is the meta-information of the motion, btw.
Thanks, after marking left or right of a frame I've been setting flags as "start motion here" or "end motion here". What got me thinking about .MC was the fact that the motion clip would only play once at most in Game Mode and the .MI file was updated but the .MC file was not. The BlendUtils lgtoolkit files for Blender have python scripts for motion conversion, but I haven't figured them out yet. I had it in mind to clip motion frames in Blender.
Derspegn on 28/1/2019 at 12:36
Quote Posted by john9818a
One thing that you might have already considered is that the first frame and last frame of the motion should arrive physically at the same place, and the motion should include the AI moving to one position and back to the original position. Its been a while since I used the motion editor, and on today's resolutions it almost requires a microscope to see the stick figure's limbs. To me its hard to see the limbs rotate. Anyway all of the motion values should be the same in the first and last frame to make the motion seemless. You could probably get away with the last frame being the same as the second frame since in a loop the first frame will appear again after the last frame.
I tried something different, this time only using 2 frames instead of about 1/3 of the motion track. I'll explain the difference between using a frozen mesh (1 single frame) vs. one moving with about 2 frames:
1 single frame:
Choose one spot in the motion track
Frame--Mark Left, Set Flag--Start Motion Here, Mark Right, Set Flag--End Motion Here, Done
2 Frames:
Choose one spot in the motion track
Frame--Mark Left, Set Flag--Start Motion Here, Done
Move one space (track mark, motion permitting) to the right
Frame--Mark Right, Set Flag--End Motion Here, Done
I tried the second method with many settings under Play Options. The two frames are close enough for the AI to stay in roughly the same location. However, when I used both time-based and frame-based playback, using lower numbers for Time Warp, the AI would continually shrink in size while remaining in the same place. The AI is more stationary if Stretch is set to a very low value. I tried this with both the marker and lute object having DetailAttachment links. I did not get around to trying it with the Mesh Attach.
***I DO NOT recommend using values such as 1000 or 0, especially for Play Options--Trans Millisec or Time Warp, as the Motion Editor crashed.
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https://i.imgur.com/kMR0SYT.pngjohn9818a on 29/1/2019 at 00:28
Quote Posted by Derspegn
Ok, I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying. I thought the motions and MSchema folders were to go in the Thief folder, and makmdb was to be placed in them but not placed or run in the main T2 folder.
Thanks, after marking left or right of a frame I've been setting flags as "start motion here" or "end motion here". What got me thinking about .MC was the fact that the motion clip would only play once at most in Game Mode and the .MI file was updated but the .MC file was not. The BlendUtils lgtoolkit files for Blender have python scripts for motion conversion, but I haven't figured them out yet. I had it in mind to clip motion frames in Blender.
The Motions and MSchema folders should be in your Thief2 folder. IIRC you said this was a test installation so anything you do won't affect your main play installation.
I run makmdb.exe from my Thief2 folder with no problems. Before I do so I make a backup copy of my current good working motiondb.bin file first. I do have the same motions and MSchema folders along with makmdb.exe and some other utilities in Tools\Motion Workshop as well.
It seems like you are trying to place the start and end flags in a motion so that only part of the motion plays over and over? Even though the AI isn't locomoting it might still be moving over with just the limited portion of the motion... being incomplete the AI doesn't arrive back at the stating point. If this is the case maybe make a new motion that uses just the part you need along with a mirror image of the same motion. If your motion just for example is 345 then make it 345543 or 3454 so that it the AI returns back to the starting position without being pushed over.
How are you making the AI play the motion? Just curious if you are using an ActorTagList parameter or is this in a conversation.
Derspegn on 29/1/2019 at 13:08
Quote Posted by john9818a
It seems like you are trying to place the start and end flags in a motion so that only part of the motion plays over and over? Even though the AI isn't locomoting it might still be moving over with just the limited portion of the motion... being incomplete the AI doesn't arrive back at the stating point. If this is the case maybe make a new motion that uses just the part you need along with a mirror image of the same motion. If your motion just for example is 345 then make it 345543 or 3454 so that it the AI returns back to the starting position without being pushed over.
How are you making the AI play the motion? Just curious if you are using an ActorTagList parameter or is this in a conversation.
1. Yes, I'm trying to loop only part of the motion and have it repeat. I'm not sure I understand fully about the motion numbers. Were you referring to individual frame numbers or number values in the schema file? How would I make a mirror image of the same motion? With only the two frames the AI is shrinking instead of sidestepping. So it may be the case that the motion can't return to the original point and as a result has to shrink the AI to return to the starting point?
2. I'm mainly using an ActorTagList parameter with an ~AIWatchObj link to the AI. In some .cow saves I do have a malsev02~AIConversation--marker--~ControlDevice--button, which I remove when testing the AIWatchObj.
I was able to generate a new motiondb.bin. I reloaded schemas, optimized, and saved a new .cow. However, DromEd is currently crashing in Game Mode when have the AIWatchObj link to the AI.
There are 2 other different AI with ~AIWatchObj links, but their motions don't need to be modified.
I need to test further to see if DromEd is crashing due to the 2 frame limit.
It might be helpful for me to put up a video and show how the AI actually moves in MotEdit.
