jtr7 on 6/10/2006 at 21:39
Yeah, heh heh, that's one of the recurring favorite theories. Do I recall correctly that the ratmen in Metal Age are wearing the same uniform as the guards were in Constantine's mansion? Not that that would be definitive proof, in and of itself. If the human guards in the mansion and the ratmen are the only AI that wear that uniform style, then that supports the theory better, but Constantine could just prefer his guards to wear that uniform, human or ratmen alike.
Back to the Baron. According to the conversations, which are only supposed to be the speculations of the AI having them, and are not necessarily fact, the Baron is away at war with Blackbrook. He's staying at war because it's profitable: The taxes The City pays out to fund it are worth it. The Baron is considered greedy, unlike his grandfather, who was admired--by the Hammers!
If the Hammers admired the grandfather, then he must have been impressively virtuous, and/or someone who appreciated good craft, and/or must have overseen the building of a proud part of The City.
The Baron's tax collector IS making sure that the taxes are collected. Whether he's gleaning something for himself without the Baron's knowledge is unknown. His first name is Julian. Bram Gervaisius wrote that he went hunting with a man named "Julian," and Bafford, as well.
Anyway, that's just off the top o' my head....
nicked on 7/10/2006 at 07:53
Quote Posted by dethtoll
anybody wonder what happened to them after the place went nuts when garrett returned with the eye?
Actually I always thought Constantine fed his guards to his creatures - there are a good few piles of human bones in the caves in Escape.
And on the tax collector subject - "Julian" could just as easily be another lord - perhaps Lord Julian from the Thief 3 mission End of the Bloodline.
242 on 7/10/2006 at 09:00
Quote Posted by jtr7
Yeah, heh heh, that's one of the recurring favorite theories. Do I recall correctly that the ratmen in Metal Age are wearing the same uniform as the guards were in Constantine's mansion?
It's not a theory but proved fact. Constantine's guards are indeed ratmen in disguise.
There is a proof in one of the old threads with screenshots etc. that devs intentioanlly made it so.
Quote:
The Baron's tax collector IS making sure that the taxes are collected. Whether he's gleaning something for himself without the Baron's knowledge is unknown. His first name is Julian. Bram Gervaisius wrote that he went hunting with a man named "Julian," and Bafford, as well.
Are you sure about "Julian"? I don't remember the name was mentioned in T1 or T2. Only in TDS, where he is a lord in "End of the Bloodline" mission.
june gloom on 7/10/2006 at 18:00
Quote Posted by Bram's Personal Collector's Journal Vol. 17
Just came back from a nice long trip in the northern territories. Ah, what wonderful hunting they have up north! Bafford always organizes the most delightful hunting excursions. We tromped around in the rain on horseback for a good three days and Julian caught a nasty cold. Still, it was tremendous fun.
It was a pity I didn't catch anything. Baffy assured me it would be good hunting, but it was nothing like the time we went off west. No trophy heads to show this time. I'll add more to my collection soon though. I hope to do some hunting while I'm off in the western countryside.
:thumb:
nicked on 7/10/2006 at 20:14
still, that suggests to me that Julian is a fellow noble. What makes you think he's a tax collector?
june gloom on 7/10/2006 at 21:02
well, one theory is that he's both (a noble working in an official government position as tax collector). either that or gervasius (and bafford) take him on hunting trips to gain undue favours like exemption or discounts. he doesn't necessarily have to be "lord" julian if he's merely the tax collector, though it fits better with the first theory.
SD on 8/10/2006 at 03:55
Quote Posted by 242
It's not a theory but proved fact. Constantine's guards are indeed ratmen in disguise.
There is a proof in one of the old threads with screenshots etc. that devs intentioanlly made it so.
IIRC, Gervasius' guards and the ratmen also have the same number of hitpoints, which is a different quantity to normal human guards.
TTK12G3 on 8/10/2006 at 17:27
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
IIRC, Gervasius' guards and the ratmen also have the same number of hitpoints, which is a different quanitity to normal human guards.
Gervasius's guards seem to be enhanced in certain aspcts. For one, they do appear to have more hitpoints. They are also faster and more agile. I do not think that this is anything special.
As for the whole Julian thing, I think that the name "Julian" might have been placed as a nod to a rather obscure past reference, so that people who remember reading that note might go "Ah-ha!". Just a thought.
themetalian on 9/10/2006 at 19:26
It's interestig when you think about it. Thief 1 was about the Pagans. Thief 2 was about the worshipers of the Builder (Mechanists), and Thief: DS was about the Keepers.
Bearing this in mind, I wonder if Thief 4 will cover the politics side of the City? In this case, the Baron? I think it can work as a plot, along with strengthening the likelihood of a future Thief game, *AHEM.* :cheeky:
Elentari on 9/10/2006 at 21:31
Oh, some good thoughts here. Though the idea that Constantine's guards and ratmen are the same just. . .creeps me out.
I don't think they are in 'disguise', as the guards are actually heard complaining a few times. (although since constantine knew Garrett was there, I suppose that *could* have been staged...) So if they're the same. . .oi. Thats just creepy. Although, them being disguised is less creepy than the alternative. . .there's no basis for the idea that the pagans turn men into. . .other things.. .is there? Beyond worm-food that is. *shivers*
I see what you mean about the Baron being not a good guy. Pity. THough I suppose between him being self-serving, greedy and gone it does set the scene for the plots just about perfect. Though I doubt him being back would help much if he's that greedy. He wasn't gone in TDP/TG was he? Which says that he doesn't help the city by much when he is there. (Constantine aside. . .I doubt the best of rulers could have prevented that. Garrett sort of had an inside there. )
