EvaUnit02 on 25/12/2013 at 20:33
Quote Posted by Jonas Wæver
All bitComposer did for us was get on us Steam and help out with localisation and marketing. We still own all the rights to Conquistador, and in fact we get almost full royalties from certain digital platforms (namely GOG.com, GreenMan Gaming, GamersGate, and Desura). So if you have yet to pick up the game, please be sure to get it from one of those platforms ;)
Which e-tailer can get me both a Steam key and a DRM free copy? It was the reason I passed on the recent bitComposer Humble Bundle, no DRM free copy of Expeditions (which frankly seemed odd for HB)
SubJeff on 25/12/2013 at 22:05
DRM ruins lives
Jonas Wæver on 25/12/2013 at 22:25
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
Which e-tailer can get me both a Steam key and a DRM free copy? It was the reason I passed on the recent bitComposer Humble Bundle, no DRM free copy of Expeditions (which frankly seemed odd for HB)
Nobody sells it DRM free *and* on Steam, you have to choose. If you go for Steam, I'd ask you to buy it via GreenMan Gaming. If you want DRM free, you should get it from Desura or GOG.com.
Quote Posted by NuEffect
I don't think shadow based stealth is important. If you have a good stealth system that works well mechanically for gameplay then it doesn't actually matter how it works. What matters is how enjoyable it is and how skilled you need to be use it.
Great, that's what we've been thinking as well.
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Same thing with third person. Every stealth game doesn't
have be in first person.
I think most stealth games are third person actually, Thief and Deus Ex are kind of the exceptions - and the Riddick games. First person just feels more Looking Glass - they were pretty big on immersion. We just can't afford that.
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Re: objects and physics. Why do you need it? What are the details of the system? It's only useful if it has a function - if it's just cosmetic then I day no.
It's kind of an emergence thing. One utility of course is tossing objects to make noise and create distractions, but we can have that either way - we'll have a certain type of object that you can pick up and throw. Full physics would just be nice for consistency and the potential for emergent gameplay. But I'm glad to hear you at least don't find it to be that important, because I doubt we can make it happen.
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Saving in a stealth game? Checkpoint saves make sense for your co-op but the problem with it in a stealth game (if it's a good stealth game) is that death/failure in-between checkpoints is extremely irritating.
Quicksaving has a similar problem - it allows you to essentially create a safety cushion.
I think that stealth games should have limited quick saves. Only allow 4 a level and I don't mean 4 save slots I mean only allow people to save 4 times.
Hm I don't know how I feel about that. Hitman used to have limited saves up until Absolution, and I never liked that restriction. Especially the first time through the game, when you don't how exactly how big each mission is, I always tend to hold on to my saves for way too long, making the first large part of the mission a real bitch for myself because I have to replay 30 minutes of gameplay if I mess up.
One option I've considered is to allow saving at any time, but to prevent loading except when the operative player specifically dies. That way at least you won't be tempted to load a savegame as soon as you mess up stealth, the way I tend to do in stealth games - you'll at least try to run away and hide, or shoot your way out of immediate trouble and then relocate quickly.
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As to your co-op issue - when someone tries to save then the other player has to agree to it. Simple, no?
That might not be a bad option either. Could be pretty annoying to get that "Player 2 wants to save the game. Accent/Cancel" pop-up every 10 seconds if you're playing with an overcareful partner. Or, conversely, if you're playing with an asshole, the other player might never let you save :P
june gloom on 25/12/2013 at 22:29
FREE RICHARD STALLMAN
Renzatic on 26/12/2013 at 00:24
Quote Posted by Jonas Wæver
Nobody sells it DRM free *and* on Steam, you have to choose. If you go for Steam, I'd ask you to buy it via GreenMan Gaming. If you want DRM free, you should get it from Desura or GOG.com.
Sure they do. (
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1) Here's an ongoing, constantly updated list of all the DRM free games you can buy through Steam
SubJeff on 26/12/2013 at 00:52
Quote Posted by Jonas Wæver
It's kind of an emergence thing. One utility of course is tossing objects to make noise and create distractions, but we can have that either way - we'll have a certain type of object that you can pick up and throw. Full physics would just be nice for consistency and the potential for emergent gameplay. But I'm glad to hear you at least don't find it to be that important, because I doubt we can make it happen.
Well there is a gameplay use for it then, so you should either make it explicit which objects are throwable and have them placed logically or have all the objects as throwable. So, given what you've said, logical placement of selected throwables it is.
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Hm I don't know how I feel about that. Hitman used to have limited saves up until Absolution, and I never liked that restriction. Especially the first time through the game, when you don't how exactly how big each mission is, I always tend to hold on to my saves for way too long, making the first large part of the mission a real bitch for myself because I have to replay 30 minutes of gameplay if I mess up.
Yeah, this is the problem with it.
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One option I've considered is to allow saving at any time, but to prevent loading except when the operative player specifically dies. That way at least you won't be tempted to load a savegame as soon as you mess up stealth, the way I tend to do in stealth games - you'll at least try to run away and hide, or shoot your way out of immediate trouble and then relocate quickly.
This is really exploitable though. Get caught? Run into the enemy and die on purpose.
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That might not be a bad option either. Could be pretty annoying to get that "Player 2 wants to save the game. Accent/Cancel" pop-up every 10 seconds if you're playing with an overcareful partner. Or, conversely, if you're playing with an asshole, the other player might never let you save :P
You shouldn't be playing with this guy then. How else are you going to match the co-op saves if it isn't both parties saving and loading the same game at the same point?
catbarf on 26/12/2013 at 04:27
That's not what he was talking about, he was saying that retailers sell either a Steam version or a DRM-free version, not both in one package as Eva was asking.
SubJeff on 26/12/2013 at 08:42
Isn't that what Renz linked to?
Jonas Wæver on 26/12/2013 at 12:29
Quote Posted by NuEffect
This is really exploitable though. Get caught? Run into the enemy and die on purpose.
Yeah, that's the problem with it :P
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How else are you going to match the co-op saves if it isn't both parties saving and loading the same game at the same point?
The idea is that the you're using the host's saves. One player creates the game and loads whatever savegame, the other player joins their game. The host will be in control of the savegames, and only the host will be progressing through their game (probably).
Ah. Well no, I believe you have to choose. Like I said, if you want a DRM free version you should get Conquistador from Desura or GOG.com :)
WingedKagouti on 26/12/2013 at 13:02
Quote Posted by Jonas Wæver
Hm I don't know how I feel about that. Hitman used to have limited saves up until Absolution, and I never liked that restriction. Especially the first time through the game, when you don't how exactly how big each mission is, I always tend to hold on to my saves for way too long, making the first large part of the mission a real bitch for myself because I have to replay 30 minutes of gameplay if I mess up.
One option I've considered is to allow saving at any time, but to prevent loading except when the operative player specifically dies. That way at least you won't be tempted to load a savegame as soon as you mess up stealth, the way I tend to do in stealth games - you'll at least try to run away and hide, or shoot your way out of immediate trouble and then relocate quickly.
I like how the old PC AvP did save games (after the patch, launch version didn't allow mid-level saving at all). On easy you had unlimited saves/loads per level, on medium you could save 4 times (not 4 save slots, but 4 saves in total) and on hard you had 1. If you restarted a level, the amount of times you had saved on it would reset as well. It basically let beginners muck around as much as they wanted to, while presenting a decent challenge for those who were looking for it (and still allowing them to take a break if needed). Note that this was save anywhere with no checkpoints.
