Mikael Grizzly on 17/10/2007 at 09:55
Oh man, I just <3 excessive geekism. :)
To the point: I poked the collector towers idea a bit and, well, time for my two cents:
My take on this matter is that the collector towers are part of a bigger system, and they merely act as storage towers, which collect the amassed energy (magic) from beacons, which take energy from places rich in magic energy.
The collector tower itself doesn't look like it has any visible thingamajig to collect the energy by itself, only output whatchamacallits which transfer the energy into the ball in the center.
It's kind of like batteries in my opinion: collectors amass energy balls, which are then transferred by qualified technicians into machines requiring a power source (eg. street lamps). Tools they use, I cannot theorize on.
The difference in colour and hue can be attributed to the different setting the ball is: in a collector it's passive and energy is transmitted to it, while in an eg. street lamp, it's actively giving off energy.
Thoughts?
Snakeskin on 17/10/2007 at 13:53
My ideas (the first discussion):
Leaf/Light/Borning: combining these fulfills the light-darkness relation, also fixes the issue of treating leaf or light as "borning" that is life. The leaf clearly represents life, and so does light, if it is attached to borning. This merges the two and eliminates the conflict.
Aether: The "combination" of elements, and the means for them to form effects together.
Darkness/Death: Decay, death and the means for magic to create undead.
Grizzly:
Thats also something we need to discuss! How the goddamn things work. Good thing you brought it up.
I think street lamps are run on electricity, not magic glowballs. Mainly because other lamps in thief are. I believe that any "magic" collected is converted to electricity and led through wires underground to streetlamps.
What makes you thing the thing that allows the towers to collect aetherica lenergy need to be visible, maybe they are just small crystals at the tips of the tower arms?
Actually, that's what i came up with right now. Following from my toughts on the elements, that aether is the 7th "element" or more of a conduit for the other elements.
Since elemental crystals can collect magical enerhy of a type and grow in size, i think that the collector towers use small "aetherial elemental crystals" which would be extremely rare, scarce and volatile, as well as valuable and for it to be very rare that they grow in size.
The size of the crystal would allow it to tap into more energy, and that is why they are not used as a power source to a reater extent. The crystal will dampen the magical field around it, creatign as per sola's idea a small magic dead-zone so several small crystals will not give much more energy than one in one place so when more power is needed, one will need to get it from other sources, like steam generators.
Thoughts?
Solabusca on 17/10/2007 at 18:54
I'm going to point the last two posters back to some of the ideas I mentioned up-thread that I still feel are pertinent.
Quote Posted by Mikael Grizzly
My take on this matter is that the collector towers are part of a bigger system, and they merely act as storage towers, which collect the amassed energy (magic) from beacons, which take energy from places rich in magic energy.
The collector tower itself doesn't look like it has any visible thingamajig to collect the energy by itself, only output whatchamacallits which transfer the energy into the ball in the center.
Thoughts?
Well, I'd posted initial thoughts about this upthread - yes, I think the collector towers are part of a larger system. I think the outer arms 'rake' the Aether and draw the energy into the central hub - the glowing, swirling ball - which is then either converted directly into electrical energy (as in a fantasy photovoltaic cell), or into heat that fuels a nearby steam-turbine. Transfer mechanics are inside the tower itself, most likely as wires, unless we further grant that collector towers gather and then aetherically transmit energy to other units (possible, given the glow-balls on top of the streetlights - but that may also be a 'bleeding out' effect.
Quote Posted by Snakeskin
Leaf/Light/Borning: combining these fulfills the light-darkness relation, also fixes the issue of treating leaf or light as "borning" that is life. The leaf clearly represents life, and so does light, if it is attached to borning. This merges the two and eliminates the conflict.
... that makes no sense.
Why would the Trickster, a god, specifically seperate them in his ritual? Why would he list them as distinct elements? Why would his ritual so closely match the other in-game 'mysticisms' (being, in this case, the Book of Ash)?
The Leaf seems to represent nature, verdent growth, and plant-life. Given the description in the Trickster's ritual, it does seem quite specific to green things.
I wouldn't say that Aether is 'the seventh element'. I wouldn't even say it's the combination of elemental energies - I'd say it's the plane that they exist on, or the medium they travel through.
I think you're on the wrong tack Snakeskin. The in-game documentation counters what you're proposing.
.j.
Snakeskin on 17/10/2007 at 19:01
Hm. Maybe you are right, the trickster is pretty specific about "leaf". However the quoted verses does not mention borning, where is it?
EDIT: Righto, found borning.
Also:
Quote:
..and two others, Green (Life?) and Dark (Death?).
You make the connection between "leaf" and "life" yourself.
The book of ash also doesn't support you theory, because i linked "leaf" and "light" in one element. Unless i didnt just miss it there was no description at all on the element in the middle..?
That's what bothers me. Because it seems to have something to do with life, being the center of the torso.
Also, do you not agree with me that "light" should be placed opposite to "dark" ?
EDIT: Read through the first page again. So you are of the opinion that there is no "light" element, only "plant life" "creature life" and "death" ?
Solabusca on 17/10/2007 at 19:36
Quote Posted by Snakeskin
You make the connection between "leaf" and "life" yourself.
During some of my initial assessments, yes. And I still do. Plant-life.
Quote:
The book of ash also doesn't support you theory, because i linked "leaf" and "light" in one element. Unless i didnt just miss it there was no description at all on the element in the middle..?
The upper circle has a symbol above it, as well.
Quote:
That's what bothers me. Because it seems to have something to do with life, being the center of the torso.
It's a simplified tree of life. I'm not sure why you think it should have anything to do with borning, though.
Quote:
Also, do you not agree with me that "light" should be placed opposite to "dark" ?
And it is. At the top of the table. Directly counter the place that dark is. Not stuck in the middle, with something else above it.
Quote:
EDIT: Read through the first page again. So you are of the opinion that there is no "light" element, only "plant life" "creature life" and "death" ?
Again, I'm not sure where you get this from. I discuss the Light/Borning element in terms of positive (Holy/Blessed/Spiritual) energy vs. Dark's negative energy.
.j.
Snakeskin on 17/10/2007 at 20:04
Quote:
The upper circle has a symbol above it, as well.
Perhaps i was unclear (as always) i see the leaf symbol. I said that the
middle circle does not have any symbol.
Quote:
And it is. At the top of the table. Directly counter the place that dark is.
So leaf/light then? They seem very differing from my point of view.
Any more detailed thoughts on this particular element?
Quote:
Again, I'm not sure where you get this from. I discuss the Light/Borning element in terms of positive (Holy/Blessed/Spiritual) energy vs. Dark's negative energy.
I meant that
i read through the first page again. Not that you should do it.
Also, the trickster separates "leaf" and "borning" so they are
not part of the same element!
Please explain your thought on the middle element in detail as well.
EDIT: I dont think that you noted (although i already said it), but i've completely scrapped the "balance" theory. I am waiting for further results of this discussion to describe the elements of Thief.
Solabusca on 18/10/2007 at 00:44
Quote Posted by Snakeskin
Perhaps i was unclear (as always) i see the leaf symbol. I said that the
middle circle does not have any symbol.
And that's the one that I feel is the Leaf location. The one in the middle. I don't believe the top symbol is a leaf.
Quote:
So leaf/light then? They seem very differing from my point of view.
Any more detailed thoughts on this particular element?
No. See above. The top circle is Borning, the middle is Leaf, the bottom is Dark.
Quote:
Also, the trickster separates "leaf" and "borning" so they are
not part of the same element!
I've never suggested they are. YOU have.
Quote:
Please explain your thought on the middle element in detail as well.
Already done. The top circle is at the opposite end of the chart from the bottom, and therefore is the one in direct opposition with the bottom. The middle is balanced between them. So, again, so you're not confused about my impressions, from highest to lowest - Light/Borning, Green/Leaf, Darkness.
Quote:
EDIT: I dont think that you noted (although i already said it), but i've completely scrapped the "balance" theory. I am waiting for further results of this discussion to describe the elements of Thief.
Actually, that's another thread. We're talking about the Collector Towers, their function, and the strata of magic in the Thief universe, not the philosophy/alignment concepts you proposed in the Philosophy thread.
.j.
Snakeskin on 18/10/2007 at 07:31
What do you take borning to mean? "creature life" ?
Also the leaf is clearly placed over the top circle, not the middle.
And it seems very strange for the book of ash to place the element for plant life in the torso of a man.
I said in detail, not merely the names. As you would explain the fire element for example, but if you haven't given it a though maybe it is difficult. However i suggest that you do.
We are talking about defining the elements, which is exactly what that philosophy was built on.
jtr7 on 18/10/2007 at 07:37
Private Message time....
Solabusca on 18/10/2007 at 10:51
Quote Posted by jtr7
Private Message time....
Indeed. I've sent a more in-depth reply to Snakeskin in hopes of cooling his ardour, but I'll assert my views on the Book of Ash chart here, quickly.
Top Circle - Borning/Light: Positive energy, life/creation (possibly inspiration/thought, as well).
Middle Circle - Leaf/Green(sie): Verdant Nature, unbridled and chaotic growth.
Bottom Circle - Night/Dark: Negative energy, death/decay/entropy.
Further discussion about the 'philosophy' of the Thief world can take place in another thread - really, I'm just interested in the various magical forces discussed in the Thief-verse, and find that the model I've described best fits my own interpretations thereof, after fairly extensive review of the observable in-game documentation and phenomena.
At the end of the day, it's assured that there was probably nowhere near as much thought given during creation as we're putting into the subject at this time.
