WingedKagouti on 13/11/2013 at 11:11
Quote Posted by zacharias
We haven't really mentioned the Japanese comics either. Another huge area that I'm totally ignorant about.
It's Korean and you won't find it in your library (free webcomic), but (
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Webcomic/TowerOfGod) Tower of God gets a recommendation from me. It starts out looking like a standard "Must get stronger!" shonen action series (like Bleach or Dragon Ball), but near the end of Season One something important happens that changes the tone of the story. It is lengthy (166 chapters at this point and looking like it could easily go 100 chapters more) but well worth the read IMO.
Uzumaki has some disturbing imagery and gets general thumbs up from people who like weird, creepy stories.
(
http://www.mangareader.net/search) Manga Reader has a decent search function (with explanations of the categories), it could help you find some stuff you'd like.
Thirith on 13/11/2013 at 12:24
Talking of Asian comics: I liked Osamu Tezuka's Buddha. You need to get used to his blend of serious and and wacky, and there's likely to be a bit of culture shock to begin with, but there's a reason why Tezuka is an acclaimed author.
Muzman on 13/11/2013 at 21:59
From Hell is mentioned so I must procrastinate. Thirith has it well covered really. It's not a mystery, but a horror story. A tale of spiraling into madness written as a reaction to mystery mongering, conspiracy theories and serial killers itself.
It's really quite staggering in what it does. I'll hit upon some new thread Moore has laid down out of the blue now and then and have to pick it up again. I think its his magnum opus. As I've heard him talk and read his other stuff I can't help but note From Hell seems to contain all of his various obsessions of time, culture, spirituality, magic and the imagination interwoven like nowhere else. He seems to have relaxed a bit more after it. It's his Ulysses and sent him back to relatively lighter fare.
Of course, it was meant (among other things) to put a cap on the Ripper myth at the 100th anniversary. But that didn't work out, clearly (not that he'd be surprised that his spells are no match for something like that). But to say it's just about the Ripper is to undersell it (and his presaging of the film in the appendix is pretty blackly funny really. The film is everything the book was determined not to be. Worse than his wildest dreams, I'm sure. What really sums the film up, in a way I'm sure was completely went over the heads of everyone involved is one line. In the book, Gull says "it is done. The 20th century, I have delivered it". In the movie they have him say "People will say I gave birth to the 20th century". They probably thought nothing of switching the genders in that line, thinking its easier to understand. But it shows how they had absolutely no idea about the entire subtext of the story (or one of them))
Even so, to grasp that he's taken one of the most popular and elaborate conspiracy theories about the Ripper and then retold it in such a way as to plug up what few holes it has is quite something to me. You could say whither entertainment I suppose, but it works for me. It's a hypnotic semiotic spell woven with a thousand layers and threads. It has no use for being a mystery in three acts or some other similarly comfortable format.
Malf on 15/11/2013 at 07:46
I'll go with my usual recommendations, plus spice it up with a recommendation from when I were a young 'un.
Garth Ennis' run on Punisher Max is the best Punisher and one of my favourite series of comics. The Max line of Marvel comics was supposed to present more adult themed stories, and Ennis hit it out of the park. It's a Punisher based in a more real-world scenario, with similarly believable villains such as IRA terrorist bombers, psychopathic Mafia mobsters and sex slavers. Top notch stuff.
I always recommend "Y: The Last Man" too. Again, it's a complete run and its own story with no basis in any existing comic book universe. The concept seems clichéd and trite (a mystery disease wipes out every last male creature on the planet except for the protagonist, Yorick, and his pet monkey, Ampersand), yet it never takes the easy path of becoming a male power fantasy, which is what you would expect.
Clever, touching and poignant, it's a damn good addition to any library.
And from my yoof, there's a LOT of comic book gold in 2000AD. My Gran used to own a newsagents, and every week she'd send me the latest prog. I was reading between approximately progs 200 to 800.
Many of the best comic writers and artists cut their teeth on 2000AD during this period, and the stories were mind-blowingly good.
Strontium Dog, ABC Warriors, Zenith, Nemesis the Warlock, Sláine, Bad Company, The Ballad of Halo Jones, Rogue Trooper, Judge Dredd and many others influenced who I am and what I think sci-fi is. These stories were incredibly British and not afraid to satirise the politics of the day.
Unlike traditional comics, these were never simple stories of good vs. evil. They were dark, complex tales weaved around the crucial concept of never underestimating your audience's intelligence. The people who created this stuff went on to create or contribute to many contemporary geek culture touchstones. Alan Moore wouldn't be where he is today without 2000AD, that's for sure. And I doubt we'd have Games Workshop.
Of all the 2000AD stories I've read, I think my absolute favourite would have to be Rogue Trooper on Nu Earth. The Rogue Trooper game basically follows this storyline and does a great job of presenting an abridged version, but the story as a whole is a commentary on the horrors of nuclear and biological war as well as the dangers of fascism. Sure, the "Norts" were pretty much thinly-disguised Nazis, but it didn't stop the story being incredible.
And it also introduced me to the concept of uploaded consciousness, something you can't seem to escape if you read contemporary sci-fi. Rogue is a genetic infantryman, and one of the "features" of these biologically manufactured soldiers was that on death, their personalities would be uploaded to a special "Biochip". This chip could then be loaded into equipment in the field with the intention of implantation into a new body at some point in the future. This was back in 1981.
A lot of these 2000AD stories have been collected into volumes now, so it's well worth picking one or two up. It can be a little disjointed reading them in collected format, as these stories were originally written as weekly serials, so there are noticeable breaks and summaries of what happened last week. But persevere and you'll have read some of the best British sci-fi of the 80s.
zacharias on 16/11/2013 at 01:49
Thanks for that info Malf.
Still on 'From Hell', i do agree it is staggering in terms of the ambition of the piece, have to take your hat off to it for that alone.
D'Juhn Keep on 17/11/2013 at 20:28
X-Men Legacy - following the adventures of Charles Xavier's son
Black Adam - The Dark Age - following a supervillain/sometime anti-hero following his family being killed (again)
Fantastic Four/FF - Jonathan Hickman's run on Fantastic Four 570 - 611 and FF 1 - 23 (the issues alternate at a certain point)
Godzilla - The Half Century War - do I have to explain what this one is about?
Seven Soldiers by Grant Morrison - incredible series comprising 4 issues each for 7 lesser-known DC characters. If you read one book/series make it this one
june gloom on 18/11/2013 at 02:09
Seven Soldiers, by the way, is one of the many, many building blocks for Final Crisis.
Muzman on 20/11/2013 at 10:25
I'm not much help in all this. I heard someone (I think it was the guy from Superhero hype or Red Tights or one of those) say as a comic book fan, he's got to know how to take the good with the bad. It was a good summary of why I generally couldn't be bothered anymore after a certain point. There's no character so good you'll read them put through stupid stories and bad art week in week out, or just weak writing. Even with the occasional gem here and there. It's why most people won't be comic fans I think.
But that's why Death in the Family wasn't all that. It was just regular run Batman really, but they kill off Robin. It's interesting for Bats going nuts afterward (more nuts I guess) and ushering in the new 'dark era' (partly anyway) that others had been toying with for a while. Still just a comic book though, unfortunately.
Anyway, can more Moore ever be enough? V for Vendetta is worth a look, as I don't spot it mentioned yet. Also and interesting movie comparison too. Hollywood changed the emphasis and cut out the weirdness and made it a bit less morally complicated, but this time the movie is actually pretty good.
zacharias on 21/11/2013 at 01:45
I read 'Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow' By Alan Moore/Curt Swan a month or so back. It's good and all but not really up there with his best work imo; I found the villain of the piece a bit cheesy. I should qualify that I guess by admitting I've never really been a big Superman fan.
Also gone through books 3, 4 & 5 of the Moore/Bisette/Totleben/Veitch etc. Swamp Thing collected reprints this past week. Excellent stuff. The 'battle between good and evil' (or whatever) run in Book 4 lost me a little bit, I found it a bit overblown, but that's my only real complaint.
