SneakyGuy101 on 2/11/2014 at 01:57
I've been working on a mission called "A Fence In Need" but it's a very messy mission and so I've been getting very bored with it because it's just very sloppily designed and I think that I need to unfortunately restart the mission. It's still gonna have the same storyline and plot but just not the same level. I know it seems a bit dumb for me to abandon the level itself that I've been working on for three months but I just feel the need to restart it.
I have a good idea though and I'm going to be building the mission much differently than I was. I'm going to use the 'Stepwise Refinement Method' which I found on Thief-TheCircle.com from an old thread (the link: (
http://web.archive.org/web/20010309204414/http://www.thief-thecircle.com/teg/guides/guides/leveldesign.asp) )
I'm also going to do this. I'm going to take all of the parts that I actually like out and make a vbr/multibrush file out of them and then put them in the newer redone level.
Most of the areas that I like are ones that I've already shown in screenshots of the level.
So does it sound like a good idea? Ill definitely have to release it sometime in the winter or spring but that is what's best for it, for the sake of the level itself :D
So let me hear your opinions on the matter.
Xorak on 2/11/2014 at 02:40
How were you building the level before? For the mission I'm working on now I've been using a new technique, where I build the interior first and then refine the outside. Before, I was wasting 14,000 or so cells on the outside not leaving myself with enough to work with for the inside. Plus, I'd invariably make a complex outside but it'd be too small and I'd not have enough space to build what I needed on the inside. Of course, that style only works when dealing with one or two large structures.
But I guess I follow a step-wise technique like that document suggests. For instance, I have 2700 brushes in my level and only three textures, 1 massive room brush, no lights or AI, and no objects except stairs and architectural bits. So I never have anything to show off. If you like showing your work and getting encouragement that way, the step-wise technique can be a tough road.
If you're having trouble coming up with interesting location ideas you should map it out beforehand or find cool photos to copy. That's the easiest way to envision crazy ideas at odd angles and levels and then just copy these ideas into dromed, otherwise there may be a tendency to build in a chunky, square way.
Ricebug on 2/11/2014 at 14:07
Having read the linked document, I'd like to paste two sentences:
Quote:
Step One: Create world space: "As stated in Tim's document, try to use Grid Size 14 for this initial stage. Using any grid size smaller than 14 violates the principle of stepwise refinement, and can cause headaches when you build your interiors."
Quote:
Step Three: Add architectural details: "It's time to crank grid size down to 12 and begin creating the details."
My own experience with multi-brushing and relocating the VBRs to another mission was a Trail of Tears. I did this with Bad Blood II, trying to import Jason Otto's Abandoned Mission (which later became parts 1 & 2) into the main train level (later, mission 3). The worst thing was all of the textures in Jason's architecture were scrambled; none of them stayed on their original faces.
Also, when you paste the VBR, your grid snap has to be set really small (10). Otherwise, the small detail brushes will be warped or flattened, trying to sit within a larger grid. I had to manually track down each and every bad brush (they generate an error message) and re-snap it (wedges are the worst culprits here).
Lastly, when transplanting Jason's mission into my own, all of the RBs suddenly turned into objects or lights. They looked like RBs, but when you clicked on one, it was a table, or a light, or sometimes, even a texture. They all had to be deleted and I ended up RB-ing everything from scratch. In the end, I gave up and decided to ship the mission as a 3-part campaign.
Yandros on 2/11/2014 at 14:34
Quote Posted by Ricebug
My own experience with multi-brushing and relocating the VBRs to another mission was a Trail of Tears. I did this with Bad Blood II, trying to import Jason Otto's Abandoned Mission (which later became parts 1 & 2) into the main train level (later, mission 3). The worst thing was all of the textures in Jason's architecture were scrambled; none of them stayed on their original faces.
I faced that when porting
St. Fera (which was originally a T1 mission) to T2 for
The Drymian Codex, but (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125184) Digi posted a tutorial in TEG years ago for a way to do it that preserves all the textures, and it worked great. You have to plan things out and be meticulous about it, but if the multibrush is large and you want to preserve the texturing (as opposed to redoing it anyway), it's saves a ton of headache.
Quote Posted by Ricebug
Lastly, when transplanting Jason's mission into my own, all of the RBs suddenly turned into objects or lights. They looked like RBs, but when you clicked on one, it was a table, or a light, or sometimes, even a texture. They all had to be deleted and I ended up RB-ing everything from scratch. In the end, I gave up and decided to ship the mission as a 3-part campaign.
I had the same thing happen importing part of DP3 into DP2.
SneakyGuy101 on 3/11/2014 at 04:38
I've already started redoing the level and it's going very well with the Stepwise refinement. It will have to be delayed until late winter or early spring but that's sort of a good thing anyways since I'll be starting my level for the 'challenge words' contest later this month.
