Gambit on 3/10/2007 at 23:51
Quote:
FM makers will obviously see this as new Thief editor, and everything that can be changed, will be changed to Thiefy stuff. Will that not be a problem?
Absolutely not.
They are releasing the pen and the paper for the fans. How the fans use these tools is totaly free to them.
So yes, we can make FMs using Garrett, Hammerites, Pagans. Everything with Thief´s trademarks. All is game EXCEPT GAINING MONEY FROM FAN MISSIONS USING THIS TRADEMARK.
As soon as Dark Mod is out you can make FMs with Garrett or any other famous character... James Bond, Wolverine, Superman, Harry Potter... It´s FAN work, you´re free. Just don´t charge for it and it´s fine.
Yandros on 4/10/2007 at 01:57
Quote Posted by Gambit
So yes, we can make FMs using Garrett, Hammerites, Pagans. Everything with Thief´s trademarks. All is game EXCEPT GAINING MONEY FROM FAN MISSIONS USING THIS TRADEMARK.
As soon as Dark Mod is out you can make FMs with Garrett or any other famous character... James Bond, Wolverine, Superman, Harry Potter... It´s FAN work, you´re free. Just don´t charge for it and it´s fine.
Err....no, you're completely wrong here. But I don't want to start that whole giant ugly IP legal debate again, so I'll just drop it now. :erg:
New Horizon on 4/10/2007 at 02:30
Quote:
So yes, we can make FMs using Garrett, Hammerites, Pagans. Everything with Thief´s trademarks. All is game EXCEPT GAINING MONEY FROM FAN MISSIONS USING THIS TRADEMARK.
As a member of Darkmod, I will simply say. You are incorrect. If this were the case, don't you think that WE would have used all the familiar thief trademarks? It's illegal to do so, whether you make money or not.
Consider, for a moment, that TDM is being build in a competitors engine. Hmmm. Consider that anyone who would like to play TDM will need to buy that competing engine...more money in the pocket of id software. Consider also, that TDM will be freely available for download and that the community will be able to make Thief inspired missions. Connect those dots and you'll see the problem if people blatantly start ripping off Thief. Id would be making some extra coin off of the intellectual property of another company.
SO. That's why we have tried to stay as close to a Thief styled setting as we can, without being Thieves ourselves.
Quote:
As soon as Dark Mod is out you can make FMs with Garrett or any other famous character... James Bond, Wolverine, Superman, Harry Potter... It´s FAN work, you´re free. Just don´t charge for it and it´s fine.
No, it really wouldn't be fine.
Here's the deal. It will come as no surprise that we have made TDM similar enough to the Thief universe that it can be easily used for similar FM's. Whether the character is called a Hammer, or a Builder...doesn't really matter, FM authors will still use them in a similar way. Obviously, we would prefer if people respected our wishes and used the names we have come up with...but if they absolutely must call them Hammers...there's really nothing we can do about it. Eidos on the other hand, may feel differently.
Gambit on 4/10/2007 at 03:21
I understand the developer´s issues to the dangers of copyright law. If it´s just a name issue (Hammer or Builder) then there is really not a need to shake things up for it.
It´s really a grey area there.
From one hand Marvel sued City of Heroes for making a MMORPG where there was a "possibility" of players making their players look like their comic heroes...
On the other hand you have a lot of MODs, including one Oblivion MOD where you can use Garretts weapons and arrows and interact with an NPC named Basso...
New Horizon on 4/10/2007 at 03:39
Quote Posted by Gambit
On the other hand you have a lot of MODs, including one Oblivion MOD where you can use Garretts weapons and arrows and interact with an NPC named Basso...
There is a difference between a smaller mod like the one for Oblivion, and a Total Conversion like we're doing with the Doom 3 Engine. The Oblivion mod simply adds some Thief related things to the existing game, it doesn't really stand on its own as a full fledged toolset like Dark Mod.
sparhawk on 4/10/2007 at 10:06
Quote Posted by Grazor
Am I to take it, that when this is all finished, FM makers are free to do whatever they please with Dark Mod?
Almost. ;) You can't take it and hand it out as yours. There will also be a licence that restricts usage of assets to free usage with TDM only, so other use cases may have to be negotiated with the creators. Which simply means: It should not be possible to take all our textures or models, etc. and put them into your own, completely different game and sell it as your own. As long as you create FM missions for TDM with it, you will be free to do whatever you want with it.
Wether you do something legal or not with it (which means turning it into a copy of Thief) is your own problem. We haven't endorsed that for a reason, and if you choose to go against copyright laws, it's your own problem and not ours. It depends on your laws though. Maybe creating a Thief mission with Garrett in it, is legal where you live, but I can't know this. In some countries it might be illegal to do so because of IP laws.
sparhawk on 4/10/2007 at 10:19
Quote Posted by New Horizon
There is a difference between a smaller mod like the one for Oblivion, and a Total Conversion like we're doing with the Doom 3 Engine. The Oblivion mod simply adds some Thief related things to the existing game, it doesn't really stand on its own as a full fledged toolset like Dark Mod.
That doesn't really matter when IP law is concerned. Whether the transgression is small or big or wether you make money from it, or do it only because you love the franchise is absolutely of no concern in such a case. It's up to the IP holder to defend his claim. The amount of transgression doesn't matter in the least.
Gambit on 4/10/2007 at 14:38
Well, from the author´s mod "Thieves Arsenal" - description:
"Basso the Boxman is your initial source for these tools, but there are other merchants in each city who can also provide for your thiefly needs. Fencing stolen goods to Basso will allow you to gain access to these other merchants."
So he is using an NPC from the Thief games.
And his MOD can be downloaded from big gaming sites such as Fileplanet.
So yeah, maybe Eidos can sue him for that...
Althought it would be sad. It´s a very good Mod.
R Soul on 4/10/2007 at 14:54
Without the legal issues (i.e. if the Thief 3 engine & resources could have been suitably worked with), I would not hesitate to suggest that since Garrett's storyline seems complete, new missions could be focused on an ex-Keeper who's trying to get by in the City during the Unwritten Times. While some of them could try to earn an honest living, some could try to still maintain the balance using ordinary means (e.g. politics), and others could follow Garrett's example and use their skills for their own ends.
Is there a similar group of characters in the Dark Mod (stealthy types to like to maintain order, whose group has recently lost an important part of its power)?
New Horizon on 4/10/2007 at 15:23
Quote Posted by R Soul
Is there a similar group of characters in the Dark Mod (stealthy types to like to maintain order, whose group has recently lost an important part of its power)?
Not specifically. The thing everyone needs to remember is that Dark Mod is a toolset first and foremost. You're not locked into any set storyline, only if you wish to be. That being said, there are character models that could easily pass for 'keeper like' characters. They could be used as is, or reskinned to better suit the authors intentions. You can attain a lot of variety by using multiple skins on a single model, and our model browser in Dark Radiant allows for easy switching.
