TazmanianDevil on 14/12/2010 at 16:42
Does anyone have a list of the maximum possible (and correct) values one can get for the "Pockets Picked" stat in the thief games. I know that in the old engine, the value was frequently incorrect. And I'm pretty sure that just subtracting 1 is not correct either since there seem to be levels where the count is way too high and in the 1st thief game, most of the counts are actually correct.
And in the 3rd thief game, it doesn't even give you the possible number
So does anyone know of any list that has the actual values? Most of the walkthroughs I've seen leave them out. The values for Thief 2x would be nice too if those are around.
ffox on 14/12/2010 at 23:30
I reckon that TMA is a solid 1 extra throughout. (Don't forget that arrows filched from archers count as picks.)
The situation is different in FMs based on DEDX - the stats total is 7 too many.
If you DromEd you can count the extras - they are caused by buggy Contains links to archetypes in the gamesys. Dark.gam has one. DEDX01.gam has seven. Most FMs now use a custom gamesys and are tweaked to show the correct number in the stats.
TazmanianDevil on 15/12/2010 at 19:40
Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think the TMA missions are always off by one. In Framed, I've found 2 out of 5 and in Eavesdropping I found 1 out of 4. I suppose I could really be missing some (and if I did, you can tell me, but not where specifically) but I thought I was pretty thorough. Most missions do seem to be off by 1 and I didn't find a single mission where I found all it said I could.
There were also some T2X missions where I missed a huge number. For Shadowing the Enemy I found 2 out of 8 and for The Grand Hotel I found only 8 out of 17!
Maybe with the new found source code, someone will find a way to fix this.
Yandros on 15/12/2010 at 20:53
The cause of the standard 1 pocket in T2 is known, and should probably be fixable if we ever get an updated engine from the source. The cases where you're off by more than 1 is either legit pockets you're missing, or it's entirely likely that certain missions contain additional pockets which are impossible to get. But the 1 pocket is a guarantee in any T2 mission since it's a bug in the gamesys.
ffox on 15/12/2010 at 23:14
TazmanianDevil: I've just had a look at Eavesdropping in DromEd. The four pickpockets that appear in the stats are:
1. The gamesys bug.
2. A Health potion.
3. A purse.
4. A key.
3 and 4 are on the belts of corpses so don't count when you pick them up. You are quite right when you say the total is more than 1 too high. You got the only one that is valid! :) It's probable that the same thing occurs elsewhere.
(The corpse errors wouldn't occur if the objects had been placed alongside the corpses instead of being attached to them. Either the devs didn't have enough time to sort out the pickpocket count or didn't think it was important.)
Edit: I've had a look at Framed. There are actually 3 valid ones (all keys) on each difficulty, but the AI carrying them vary according to difficulty. The 2 extras are the gamesys bug and a purse on a corpse.
Spoiler - AI with the keys on Expert are: The guard outside the Records Hall; the guard patrolling between the Officers' Lounge and the door to the Evidence Storage stairs; the no-KO guard patrolling the Evidence Storage corridors.
TazmanianDevil on 17/12/2010 at 15:52
That's awesome, thanks ffox! (and for hiding the one I missed too :-)
I may fire up Dromed myself one of these days (I've played various FMs but never actually gave the editor a look) and see if I can figure out what the correct counts for Thief 2x are. I know there are detailed instructions somewhere that explain how to use it; would I find the info on how to do this in those?
And now maybe I should see if I can get the walkthroughs at Thief the Circle updated so they have these counts.
ffox on 17/12/2010 at 16:38
Check my thread in Thief Series: Hints and Spoilers. There is no definitive figure for First City Bank!
When you are able to load up a mission in Dromed PM me and I'll give you details.
ffox on 20/12/2010 at 12:00
I've now checked out all the patched TMA missions. They all over-estimate the pickpocket total by one because of the Gamesys bug. A few missions have additional errors which increase the over-estimate:
Framed over-estimates by 2 because a corpse is included.
Eavesdropping over-estimates by 3 because 2 corpses are included.
Blackmail over-estimates by 2 because a corpse is included.
Trace the Courier over-estimates by 2 because The Letter is included.
First City Bank and Trust is a special case because it uses the Killer Scripts and consequently the number of AI changes randomly each time you play. The actual pickpocket count can vary between 8 to 17 in Normal, 11 to 18 in Hard and 12 to 19 in Expert. In every case the Stats will report one more than correct value.
