DJ Riff on 17/9/2007 at 13:17
Quote:
through Constantine, the Trickster learned of this whole new realm where things were not under his control, surprises happened, there was entertainment, the god was at last amused, the god learned of the pagans and was happy at their worship, the god learned of the hammers and the other mages and perceived their potential, their ambition and their arrogance.
Looks like Thief-1 events are not first coming of Trickster, but his return, and maybe not the first attempt (see keeper Andrus — keeper Lukas correspondence). Maybe he was exiled from Garret's realm (or only The City?) by another god, e.g. The Builder. And then yes, he needed some human mage and the Eye to fulfill his return.
Esme on 17/9/2007 at 13:33
maybe the Trickster was created by the belief of the pagans
the mages discovered this and realised they had the life expectancy of a mayfly once this new god attained it's full powers so they banished it to another realm using the eye to open a portal
Constantine finds references to this banishment in his grimoires and covets the gods power leading to Thief - The Dark Project
the builder is a god in the process of being created by the belief of the hammerites but their belief is fragmented unlike the pagans due to it's relative newness and the presence of heretics like Karras who believe in mechanisms, so this god remains formless and never attains its full power until the hammerite religion attains the maturity of the pagan religion
maybe
Gambit on 17/9/2007 at 13:56
Quote:
But a heretical thief can say the prayer and still open the gates? Doubtful, then, that another type of heretic wouldn't be able to.
Well, he was certainly able to make a hammerite ghost rest in peace. With prayers, candles and all that.
Maybe he doesn´t believe in the Builder, but he isn´t opposed to it either. Therefore the hammerite forces don´t see him as "evil".
jtr7 on 17/9/2007 at 20:09
Garrett was supposed to be amoral. Neutral. That changed, eventually.
Solabusca on 17/9/2007 at 20:36
Quote Posted by Gambit
Maybe he doesn´t believe in the Builder, but he isn´t opposed to it either. Therefore the hammerite forces don´t see him as "evil".
Given the zealotry that the Church of the Hammer espouses, that makes absolutely no sense. He's regarded as quite the sinner by the Church proper. Perhaps he's able to lay the priest to rest because he sincerely wants to, but I can't see there being any reverence in what he says to get to the bloody talisman.
.j.
jtr7 on 17/9/2007 at 21:04
Maybe it's triggered by just reading it (as the last step in a series) in a sort of similar way that "reading" the Book of Ash triggers suckage.
Solabusca on 18/9/2007 at 01:52
Quote Posted by jtr7
Maybe it's triggered by just reading it (as the last step in a series) in a sort of similar way that "reading" the Book of Ash triggers suckage.
Exactly my point.
.j.
jtr7 on 18/9/2007 at 02:28
\o/
Gambit on 19/9/2007 at 00:18
As jtr7 said, maybe it´s just a trigger thing.
The hammerite prayer is a sacred tool that can be used by good, neutral and (possibly ?) evil people.
Think about the holy water. It´s a magical water that destroys undead. But it can be used as a tool by Garrett, and Garrett isn´t a "saint". Probably anyone with holy water can burst undead, even evil people.
As for Brother Murus, it was a purification ritual for his soul. It didn´t matter who purified his tomb (well, unless it was a Builder demon instead of an human IMHO) but the ritual had to be done in a precise manner so he could rest in peace.
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So yeah, an immoral thief could do these sacred things.
But I don´t see a god from an opposing religion/philosophy managing or even accepting to do these things.
Eother on 19/9/2007 at 05:00
Maybe it is similar to the whole "Satan can't enter a church" thing.
Alternatively, if the Hammerites realized their arch-enemy stole a talisman, they'd be kinda upset, and might do their best to stop him. Garret was much more inconspicuous, and nobody would suspect he did it because of a pagan god (not even Garret himself).
Maybe it was just easier to have somebody else do it.
Or...maybe it was a good excuse for 2-4 more levels.
