tiger@sound.net on 7/4/2007 at 01:34

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Female, of course. . .
(Children normally go from a female womb to something that is also protective like a cradle, hence a cradle's "female nature".) But it is prefectly acceptable, with my clinical nature and with English's freedom of choice to easily refer to any non-human object, like a cradle, as a non-sexual object or an "it" or a "that", perhaps? :thumb:

... Jim ...

Vogelfrei on 7/4/2007 at 10:41

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There are (http://eidosforum.de/forumdisplay.php?f=6) German forums, too. By the way.

Ahkaskar on 7/4/2007 at 23:11

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NightFalcon, you made one mistake. You expected something before you got there. I did that with Doom 3 to an extent (people wouldn't shut up about the game and how scary it was), and it didn't do a thing for me aside from piss me off.

I just recently completed TDS, and I have to say the Cradle was one of the most memorable levels. After experiencing THC and RTC in T1, and playing several Resident Evil games however, the Cradle really didn't spook me as much as it did to some people. Actually the thing that spooked me the most was when I let one of the patients out of their cell and waited for them to go back in, only to find that they weren't actually done checking the hall and receiving a barbed wire punch to the face. ;) It's the screw-ups that really liven up the game, which is why I don't think I could ever love to ghost a Thief game.

Horror isn't so cut and dry as being a scare ride or not, and people who have played different types of horror games should know this. People who watch modern horror movies are generally adjusted to the idea of blood and gore which, in my opinion, can only serve to distract. The true scare comes from not knowing what you're up against and what will happen when god knows what gets to you. Ambiance can be a terribly powerful thing, and it shows in the Cradle when noises can cause you to rethink your next move. For instance, when I neared the Treasurer's office and started to pick the lock, I heard something running down the hall in my direction, so I pulled off and went flat against the wall behind me. It didn't scare me, but it did make me hesitate! That's the key, there.

The "puppets" as I understand they are called, are just as easily freaky as anything else, and they have sort of a Silent Hill nature to them as they walk about, twitching. The only thing that bothered me here is that the animations of the puppets needed to be fixed, as they had the same "I guess it was nothing" stretch/yawn as every other humanoid in the game. That was probably the first thing that came to my mind that could have removed me from the experience, and can't really be blamed on the mapmaker, can it?

Some games, like Doom 3, overuse the "monster in the closet" routine which gets terribly old and repetitive very quickly. It's almost as bad as falling for a jack in the box every time someone finishes turning the crank. I could agree that seeing more things "out of the corner of your eye" would be nice, but to be honest the ambiance was plenty to get the point across. I didn't see the supposed shadow behind the desk I read about from other people, but I don't know.

From past experience, I can say that the people who weren't freaked out by this level to some degree are likely the "tough guy" types. If the Cradle didn't at least make you hesitate, you're either lying or there's something terribly wrong with you.

For those who were bothered too much by the scare such that they hated this level, lighten up. :) I really liked this level and when you get past the "get through this to just get it done" you can really enjoy it for what it is and still finish it in a decent time. Coming from someone who tried, was spooked and enjoyed themselves, 80 minutes is not long.

One other thing... I notice a lot of people are particularly surprised that the patients get back up after they finish putting a lot of broadhead arrows into them, or stab them. It's as if they didn't know they were undead. What else would they be? ;)

By the way, was anyone reminded of the Waverly Hills Sanatorium when they played this? :)

Edit: I also liked how the patients took more to take down than a regular zombie. When I started to run down on flashbombs, I switched to using either flashbombs with fire arrows, or just fire arrows. It took three fire arrows to take down one on my difficulty, which was really something. The first one got their attention and they reeled from the hit. The second let them knew where I was and they came charging, running. I knew the third one had to hit or I was going to be the next thing in the morgue. ;)

Ahkaskar on 8/4/2007 at 07:46

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Well, for me, it doesn't take reading about the mission itself to have that happen. In fact, reading about the mission before I play it doesn't have much effect at all. It's when I come to expect something, like being scared, so much to the point where I expect it to be a really, really good scare. When that happens, my expectations are so high, it is impossible to make even par. The people I talked to and the things I read for Doom 3 implied basically what you said you heard about The Cradle. Turn off the lights, play at dark, turn up your speakers. I even got a new set of surround sound speakers (upgrade from 2.0 to 5.1, that is) just for the occasion. Much to my disappointment, I was expecting and got nothing.

I know what you mean though, regarding substance. There does come a point where having something there to chase you (even something that can be easily avoided but not easily dealt with, such as the "staff members" that appear later in the level) is the next, logical, and necessary step. In the Cradle's case though, I appreciate it as it is, and you have to admit, while it might have added to it to have some sort of "unbeatable" but "avoidable" (perhaps something that had a huge patrol and you couldn't knock out or kill) creature in the earlier one-third of the mission, it could have made it much worse.

For instance, in Resident Evil 1's REmake, there is an "unlocked" mode which can't be turned off, called "One Dangerous Zombie" (ODZ). For approximately a third of the game, a zombie loaded with grenades and other assorted explosives will chase you about pre-determined rooms at pre-determined times. I hate this due to the fact that I play games such as Thief and Resident Evil somewhat similarly. In RE, every enemy must be eliminated. In Thief, everyone must be knocked out and every zombie annihilated. ;) While I could live with not being able to dust every zombie I come across in Thief, it would be much more irritating if it was overly sensitive to my movements or it was an ever-present foe that I couldn't simply avoid entirely with some simple cleverness. I'm told that the "ODZ" can be avoided simply by running in circles in creative ways, but in a Thief game I should simply be able to slip into the shadows and it would be none the wiser.

On a side note, I just thought of something that really gave me pause there. At the bottom of the solitary confinement chamber's elevator, I looked up and saw the shadow of the hanging target dummy. I knew it was a dummy but the way the shadow was cast was really poignant in my mind. I think one thing that would have improved the feeling of the Cradle would have been to place "invisible", shadow-casting creatures around.

Beleg Cúthalion on 8/4/2007 at 20:41

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Well, at least I never found a puppet rising again after a volley of fire arrows, mines or flashbombs.

I like what Jordan Thomas says about the way The Cradle works (auch auf deutsch, Philipp, frag mich): giving you clues - no story, sounds without a cause, to make you tax your brain and so get involved in the whole thing. Although this seems to be nothing new today. It's your mind they are relieing on, your imagination, your willingness not to see The Cradle just as a level with certain objectives (that you probably even have heared about before)...but as something you're in yourself. Giving you most of the possibilities you would have in real life and letting your mind fill the gaps.

Sorry for the bad English. :erg: