Cradle. Dear God... - TTLG Forums

tiger@sound.net on 9/4/2007 at 20:14

Ahkaskar, your idea about a "One Dangerous Zombie" (ODZ), like an immortal "staff member", sounds interesting and quite a bit like the classic "Boss" creature of the very first computer games. (There, it was simply a flat 2d-layout and when you failed to leave an area, after a time-period, the "Boss" would simply chase you out of there or obliterate you!) :angel:

But in our 3d world, this "Boss" should be constantly following path-nodes.
And he would always be checking areas within the Inner Cradle and even the outer one, to add some more "real danger" at the beginning, perhaps?

So, a very slow moving and almost immortal "Puppet Boss", with special blood-red wrappings for a "warning", sounds like a great idea to me. (And with enough health-points, the player should quickly learn that they are going to run out of weapons, well before this Bloody Puppet-Boss ever runs out of "stand-up power".) :ebil:

... Jim ...

Orobas on 10/4/2007 at 02:24

Oh yes, that's it make them more dangerous.:nono:

Palantir on 10/4/2007 at 12:10

Hmmmn....
So he(or it?) was called King No one? :)

tiger@sound.net on 10/4/2007 at 17:31

Quote Posted by Orobas

Oh yes, that's it make them more dangerous.:nono:

Well, Orobas, let's put it this way. . .
I think that everyone likes to "own a level". (To me, this is owning a fully beaten map, without any decent opposition or threat.) But then after being able to completely explore this totally "safe map", they'll start to lose interest or respect for it, naturally.

And true, the Cradle's spooky atmosphere is still just as rich and ever-present.
But what's a ghostly "Boo" without some sort of real "Bite" to back it up? :ebil:
(Hence, that "Boss" idea might have its place within our Cradle of fears?)
:thumb:

... Jim ...

Orobas on 11/4/2007 at 00:30

Well, I suppose you're right. Someone that comes in and shakes things up in a completely random way would have made things a little scarier. I just don't like the word "Boss." The main reason I like Thief is because of the absense of "Bosses." To me, the environment is the boss.

Dia on 11/4/2007 at 01:24

I absolutely agree with Orobas. One reason I hated games like Tomb Raider was because of the Bosses. Don't get me wrong; I still kick ass playing Lara, but the Bosses just get on my nerves. Only time I ever wanted to cheat or skip a level.

s_kai on 14/4/2007 at 18:27

Quote Posted by Gvozdika

This wont disable them permanently. I recently replayed the level to see two of two test subjects rise again. Two fire arrows followed by a flashbomb worked. Ive made this experience before and read about others reporting this. First I suspected a bug being involved but now Im quite certain that fire arrows in contrary to use on regular zombies are NOT lethal by game design.

OMFG, and I actually walked over those! :wot: I thought three fire arrows was a safe bet so I shot those things, they fell and I was running over them or just standing near/on them sometimes... Are you saying they could rise again??
:wot: I think now I'm going to have nightmares over this whole thing again :eek:

Gvozdika on 14/4/2007 at 21:00

Basically every walkthrough Ive read states that mines, flash bombs, holy water and fire arrows permanently disable Cradle Puppets. Seeing how this works with regular zombies I myself put trust in the cleansing nature of fire from the beginning. Nevertheless on some occasions I witnessed them rise again. The one patrolling the morgue in particular - which can safely be shot down the elevator shaft using, well, fire arrows. (Interestingly I found I dont have to actually walk over this one. Entering the elevator from the lowest level can easily trigger it as height doesnt seem to be taken into account at all.) When I find the time I will give this a serious trial to find the ultimate answer. Maybe difficulty settings or even using increased sensorial values (beyond expert settings) is somehow involved in this.
Instead of rendering some equipment lethal, giving them a random timer before they can or even will stand up again would have been better game design.

tiger@sound.net on 14/4/2007 at 23:55

Quote Posted by Dia

But, Dia, this Red-Puppet could be a totally different sort of Boss.
So just imagine a Boss that simply gets defeated in a battle.
But it always re-incarnates, away from that area, later.

[SPOILER]I am used to using a pretty old UnReal Map-editor, that has PawnSpawners for NPCs like this. And, of course, they have various timers that will delay the re-entrance of a special character. So, the player could defeat this "Red-puppet Boss", only to have it re-incarnate at its normal starting point, much later.[/SPOILER]

... Jim ...

Dia on 15/4/2007 at 00:50

But that would mean I'd just have to keep killing the damn thing in various places throughout the level/mission. Not my cup of tea if it's a Boss level AI. Having to fight/defeat one at the end of each level is frustrating enough.

Each to their own though. Not criticizing, just stating a preference. :D