Al_B on 18/10/2010 at 23:03
It's probably different in the USA, but in the UK consumers have additional protection laws if you use a credit card. It doesn't extend to business accounts in the same way but if someone you buy goods from goes bust then you have more of a chance to get your money back.
Cheques (with a Q, not a K) are being phased out and pretty much will be useless within the next few years.
Renzatic on 19/10/2010 at 00:15
Quote Posted by theBlackman
I sympathize, but why use a credit card? I may be old school, but if the money is not in your pocket, or checking account DON'T SPEND IT.
If this were for personal expenditures, I'd agree with you. But this was for my business, where I'd be spending on average about $5000 on equipment per job. By relying solely on checking, I could potentially drain my account during a busy month, and I'd have to waste time waiting for a check to clear everytime I order new equipment. The only option to do things as quickly with my banking account as I would with my credit card would be to give these companies my direct checking account number. A move that wouldn't be wise in the least.
If someone decided to take advantage of that, I'd be in a far, far worse situation than what I'm facing now. As in the difference between being moderately inconvenienced versus abject destitution.
Tocky on 19/10/2010 at 02:41
You realize that once you win they will still try to ruin your credit rating like a spoiled child breaking a toy it has to share right?
Renzatic on 19/10/2010 at 03:29
I'm thinking what RBJ said earlier will be the most likely outcome here. I'll probably have to face a barrage of belligerent phonecalls for a couple of months, but that'll be the extent of it. Once it gets to a certain point, they'll simply back off, eat their losses, and move on. No harm or foul on my end.
But in the unlikely event that they send me to collections or do anything that puts even the barest dent in my credit rating, I'll go whole hog maximum extent frivolous lawsuit sue crazy on them. I've already had to deal with slander, excuses, and lies on one end of this, all for the sake of breaking even (which is looking less and less likely to happen). If I have to force myself through another stupid case for another stupid reason, I will not be so kind.
Renzatic on 8/6/2011 at 20:13
Joy of joys. 2 years on, and I'm still going through all this. And it's about to get worse.
Earlier today, Mr. Admitted Guilt In Magistrate Court pleaded not guilty to all charges to the DA's office. Those charges currently include...
1 count Theft By Taking
1 count Theft By Conversion (would've been more, but since all but one of the checks were in differing counties...)
1 count Identity Fraud
...and something about ongoing criminal enterprise.
I gave the DA 3 recordings, a spreadsheet, 8 testimonies from various people who have had dealings with Bastard, and a nice narrative of what Bastard has done since leaving my employee. Basically more than enough to convince the DA of all people to take a case his office is usually not interested in prosecuting.
He has to be an absolute idiot to plead not guilty. Or he has some trump card. He's gotten away with a surprising amount in the past, up to and including forgery, check kiting, and other counts of identity fraud (something about floating fake social security numbers).
One thing I've learned from all of this: no matter how stupid you think someone is. No matter how innocent and pitiful you take someone as on first appearances...always do a background check.
...and long story short, it looks like I'm GOING TO COURT! Woohoo! I get to get screamed at and dragged through the mud!
Ostriig on 11/6/2011 at 14:19
Christ, the whole thing sounds hairy. Good luck at the trial, mate, hope it goes smooth and all works out for you!
gunsmoke on 11/6/2011 at 14:33
Nightmare scenario...sorry Renz. I feel for you.
Al_B on 12/6/2011 at 01:31
Yup - sounds like a horrible situation. It sounds like he knows what he's doing and has no morals.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
JHe has to be an absolute idiot to plead not guilty. Or he has some trump card.
Could it be as simple as he has to cast doubt as to whether the purchases were on behalf of the company rather than for him personally? From what you've said he just bought things on the pretence that it was a regular order - which the merchant wouldn't necessarily suspect and you didn't realise until the bills came in.
Of course it's still theft. My only advice is to treat the situation as a crime against the company and not against you personally.
Renzatic on 12/6/2011 at 02:39
Quote Posted by gunsmoke
Nightmare scenario...sorry Renz. I feel for you.
Eh. I'll live. It's a huge pain in the ass, but yeah... I'll live. lt'll all be over with...say...6-16 months. Plenty of time to prepare.
Quote Posted by Al_B
Could it be as simple as he has to cast doubt as to whether the purchases were on behalf of the company rather than for him personally? From what you've said he just bought things on the pretence that it was a regular order - which the merchant wouldn't necessarily suspect and you didn't realise until the bills came in.
Three things make that very easy to prove that the charges weren't made on the company's behalf.
One, the merchant in question was recommended to me through Bastard, who knew him personally, and had bought equipment through him exclusively for at least a couple of years (probably with other peoples credit cards, since he has no line of credit himself).
Two, all charges were listed under Bastard's name, despite the fact that I made the orders myself with my personal credit card. His full name is listed in bold at the top of each and every order made through that company. Consider point one, and you'll see how this can work against him.
Three, I have him listed as a sub-contractor, and I gave him absolutely no rights to my credit card whatsoever. He asked many a time for access, mostly for "purposes of convenience", and I always flat out said no.
That alone is enough to cast serious doubts as to the use of the card for business purposes. When you consider his lifestyle. How he signs everything over into his wife's name (who's on disability for asthma). Has personally filed for bankruptcy 4 times. Has no traceable income. No bank account. It's surprising he could even afford the property tax on his 10 acres and a surprisingly large and well furnished house. Nevermind that he takes expensive vacations yearly, and has already gone through 3 vehicles since I've met him. The circumstances surrounding his lifestyle is incredibly suspicious to say the least.
Of course I'll have to prove that to a jury now, it seems. Which brings me up to my concerns.
Firstly, the recordings. They're damning. But I have no idea if they're admissible in court. If a jury is able to hear them, the hearing will be over as soon as it begins. But if his lawyer fights to have them withheld, it'll be a far more drawn out situation.
Also, I do manage to commit what could be construed as extortion on one of the recordings. Didn't know it at the time, of course. Little did I realize that a single line, "give me my money, or you're going to jail", could potentially be used against me. The DA didn't seem too terribly concerned about it. But it's there.
Secondly, his lawyer might fight to try a business mishap, rather than what it is: fraud.
I have spoken to 16 people who have either had money stolen from them by Bastard, or have been defrauded in some other shape, form, or fashion. None of them have a single nice thing to say about the guy. 8 of them were even willing to sign affidavits to hand to the DA on my behalf.
And he has a very distinct modus operandi. Everything he did to me, he did to the guy before me, he did to the guy after me, he's done for the past 10 years at least. His lies are the same, as are his excuses. He's not only a creature of opportunity, but also of habit.
BUT...if it's tried as a business disagreement, then it'll be my word against his. The only advantage I have there are my records, and the fact that he doesn't handle himself with grace under pressure. He'll blubber along, stutter, whine, and shift his eyes about, in almost a textbook example of liars tells sort of way. He is good at one thing, though. He can throw a pity party like no other. Even if he's found guilty, he'll get in front of the judge and do his "we were going through a very, very, very, VERY bad time, sir" speech, and get a slap on the wrist. Just like all the other countless times he's been in court over various stupid bullshit he should've been slapped down for.
I do have quite a bit in my favor, but in the end, it'll all come down to how it's tried, what can be told, and what he'll get away with. It's in these variables that alot can go wrong for me.
Tocky on 12/6/2011 at 06:34
Heres hoping you get a judge Judy type. Jesus man, honesty is priceless in business aint it? My daughter had to point out thousands of dollars in Victoria Secret purchases on her bosses credit card by the office girl and wound up having two jobs to do when that cheat was fired. She is his right hand now of course but there is no telling how much the doc had lost over the years.
I'm surprised the guy hasn't settled. Most cheats will give back rather than risk court because a record will make it harder to cheat from the next guy. I guess your cheat is one of the stupid ones who think they can get away with it forever. Actually they can as long as they settle.
