Dale_ on 11/2/2016 at 17:14
I have a question for FM release practices - lots of FMs these days require new_mantle and other settings to be enabled in cam_ext.cfg and despite warnings and readme notes, there's always someone who forgets and gets stuck trying to mantle up a rock. So... is it a bad idea to ship your FM with these settings (and maybe some other stuff) enabled in your custom dark.cfg, override whatever ppl have set in cam_ext.cfg for your FM, and avoid all the hassle with "enable this, install this, do this before playing!!"? Kinda feels like in the same vein as including custom scripts in the FM zip instead of going "you need this script to play!!!".
As far as I know, it's not uncommon for FMs to ship with a custom dark.cfg with all kinds of menu-tweaks or max_refs settings so this practice shouldn't break anything, right?
Thanks :)
Le MAlin 76 on 11/2/2016 at 17:20
There is no reason to not activate "new_mantle", it's more realistic.
Yandros on 11/2/2016 at 17:41
If you do plan to do this, engine settings like these belong in fm.cfg and not dark.cfg. I understand your reasoning and frustration, but I'm not sure I would put config settings like new_mantle in any .cfg file in your mission ZIP. For one thing, I don't even know if NewDark would prioritize it over the one in their user.cfg in the first place, and even if so it's just not very nice to do stuff like that with user-specific settings. For the one person who you keep from getting stuck and having to ask for help, there might be another (or several other) who intentionally had that setting the way they want in user.cfg and won't appreciate that you overrode it in a .cfg in your mission ZIP. Now I realize that argument is pretty weak with regards to new_mantle, but with other settings it wouldn't be, and hopefully it illustrates the point I'm trying to make. Just my 2 cents... YMMV.
I do hope though that this means you're close to releasing a mission!
Unna Oertdottir on 11/2/2016 at 17:56
Would Darkloader install a fm.cfg? A lot of players are still using DL.
Tannar on 11/2/2016 at 18:15
I'd have to agree with Yandros regarding user-specific settings. I'm all for the author including scripts and whatever else is needed to make the mission work as intended, but don't mess with how I choose to customize my own player controls.
FireMage on 11/2/2016 at 18:22
Quote Posted by Dale_
Kinda feels like in the same vein as including custom scripts in the FM zip instead of going "you need this script to play!!!".
If you are talking about my scripts there, as I said before, LGS.osm will detect Scripts Folder ONLY if the folder is located in the main directory of Thief.
The scripts are already located in the FM zip but FMSel will not extract the folder at the right place then nothing will work.
So the "you need this script to play!!!" is inevitable.
DarkLoader can pass out this step because it will exctract it at the right place. It is just simplier to users like this.
And a CFG can't even fix the problem because of the script itself. Perhaps modifying DarkInst.cfg could fix it but I fear it could mess things up so never mind about this.
As for the NewMantling I think like Yandros.
Placing a CFG to make a single line enabled just for a couple of lazy taffers unable to read a readme is just unthinkable while it will make other people unhappy because of the changes about their own configs. Remember that some people are still playing Thief in old machine and they have been obliged to keep some semi-column to disable setting which could screw the things up and make more mess than resolutions.
Of course my opinion is surely more violent about these persons who don't activate the new mantling when we told them to do it but I think if someone is unable to read your notes and hint to make the mission working comfortably, it means he don't care about the efforts done.
So why should we make even more efforts for that kind of guy?
The other way would be to make a new software as comfortable as FMsel with the upside of Darkloader plus the ability to edit directly some lines from the CFG but I would tell good luck to the guy who will do this...
Yandros on 11/2/2016 at 18:38
Quote Posted by Unna Oertdottir
Would Darkloader install a fm.cfg? A lot of players are still using DL.
It's just another file in the root, I don't see why it wouldn't. It installs dark.cfg, so fm.cfg shouldn't be handled any differently.
Dale_ on 11/2/2016 at 21:23
Definitely agree with your point Yandros & Tannar about messing up other users' settings and I must say I was a bit tempted to tweak things like highlight_level for better immersion but... let's say I'll stay away from that. Focusing purely on the new_mantle issue, I don't see harm in overriding user settings on that one when it's
required for the FM to work and would go back to whatever their setting was upon uninstalling the FM - my only concern was whether it can cause technical issues if the game reads the command twice if a user already has it enabled, that is from cam_ext.cfg and the FM's dark.cfg. I kinda assumed that all cfg files are treated the same by the game and are just named in various ways for convenience and clarity? I've never seen any fm.cfg though, would that be just an empty file where the fm author can throw in extra tweaks?
FireMage - I'm only using NVscript.osm for custom scripts, which I assumed would work both with DL and FMsel as long as I included it in the FM zip? Is it recommended to rename the file to sth like "DaleFM.osm" so there's no conflict with older/newer versions?
Quote Posted by Yandros
I do hope though that this means you're close to releasing a mission!
Yep :)
Yandros on 11/2/2016 at 21:36
Yep, fm.cfg is mentioned in the NewDark modder's notes. You can include any config options in there but I don't know if it will override the same setting somewhere in the user's cfg files. As for NVScript, you do just include it and DL and FMSel should handle it fine, renaming used to be wise because there were issues with DL not overwriting older versions of the same script when installing the mission, but I'm not sure it's really necessary any more. If you do rename it, remember to drop the original and add the new name. And glad to see a mission coming soon!
FireMage on 12/2/2016 at 00:07
Quote Posted by Dale_
FireMage - I'm only using NVscript.osm for custom scripts, which I assumed would work both with DL and FMsel as long as I included it in the FM zip? Is it recommended to rename the file to sth like "DaleFM.osm" so there's no conflict with older/newer versions?
Ho! This is completely different! xD I though you were mentionned the missions using the LUA scripted things.
Indeed, OSM will be placed at the right placed, you don't have to fear it anymore! :D
As for the rest, Yandros tell everything. And as he said, if you have renamed your script AFTER loading it in Dromed you'll be in trouble so don't forget to use "script_drop_all" in command box then reimport them all plus the custom script with it new name :)
In your ZIP just add you OSM file with no subdirectoy and it will works fine! :P
