Fig455 on 19/3/2006 at 13:16
Well, I have been rather skeptical of the necessity of this for quite some time. I have always been happy w/Thief DS by itself, and thought there were better engines/editors than DooM 3 and it's toolset for sure. After recently picking up DooM 3 and playing it through on High graphics quality and all the eye candy enabled (as opposed to my previous medium PC play and X Box port play) as well as experimenting w/Thief 3 Ed, and DooM 3's toolset, I have to say I am now pretty excited about this.
I have a rather modest PC (though 2 years ago it was king of the hill), but I am playing D3 at 40+ fps w/all the pretty enabled. No hitching/texture thrashing either. Runs VERY smooth, and the framerate isn't all over the place. Pretty consistent. This is more than I can say for T DS. I also see the way it uses light & shadow is done very well, and now we have EAX 4 support so sound has been updated since release. Good, since Thief is famous for it's audio. this was a shortcoming for DooM, and I am glad they made up for it.
So, just here to say....good luck and I look forward to seeing more of the high quality work like you've shown us so far. I have a feeling we ain't seen nothin' yet. :thumb:
Arquette on 19/3/2006 at 14:02
Is anyone ells worried that the dark mod are so rapped up in making a toolset true to thief 1 and 2 that the aren’t going to incorporate the improvements thief 3 developed? I know saying this will probable get me crucified but thief 3 did enhance game play in some areas. 3rd person view and wall pressing were great as well as using a dagger instead of a sword and short sword. There is just no need for a thief to be armed with a weapon with no stealth capabilities! And just think how good it would look to swing from a rope arrow in 3rd person, not a true view point for a stealth game my foot!
P.S please dont hurt me!
Fingernail on 19/3/2006 at 14:11
1) No third person view directly supported but we can't stop you even if we tried.
2) Sword (short). Again, you'll be able to make your own weapons anyway to your HEART'S CONTENT.
ZylonBane on 19/3/2006 at 15:17
Quote Posted by Arquette
3rd person view and wall pressing were great
They were both sops to the weak-minded console crowd. "Wall pressing LOL special move WOOO!"
Dia on 19/3/2006 at 15:21
I want my frickin' rope arrows back. And I want to learn to swim. :nono:
Neil_McCauley on 19/3/2006 at 17:50
I can't stand 3rd person view. Blech. I have to see what the hell is front of me! I agree, it's a bone to the console players.
New Horizon on 19/3/2006 at 18:01
Quote Posted by Arquette
Is anyone ells worried that the dark mod are so rapped up in making a toolset true to thief 1 and 2 that the aren't going to incorporate the improvements thief 3 developed? I know saying this will probable get me crucified but thief 3 did enhance game play in some areas. 3rd person view and wall pressing were great as well as using a dagger instead of a sword and short sword. There is just no need for a thief to be armed with a weapon with no stealth capabilities! And just think how good it would look to swing from a rope arrow in 3rd person, not a true view point for a stealth game my foot!
P.S please dont hurt me!
Nobody is going to hurt you, but I think it does need to be pointed out that you're missing the point of why Dark Mod exists in the first place.
We are doing our best to make sure that this toolset represents what we feel a true evolution of Thief 1/ 2 would have looked like in a current generation engine. Thief was firmly established as a 'first' person sneaker, and at its core...has elements of an advanced game of hide and go seek. Add third person to this formula and you have changed the very nature of the game, because you can cheat and see areas you shouldn't be able to see. Third person is a wow factor, and as Fingernail stated, we will not support it. People can hack it in if they want...but we won't endorse it. Same with a dagger, we will not support it, but it can be added by FM authors if they so desire. The sword is great to defend against blows, so you can get away. It can also be used as a tool to break open crates, smash boarded up doors/ windows...etc. The dagger is for killing and you really aren't given much more to do with it. No doubt some things from TDS were improvments, and variations of them may find their way into The Dark Mod. We're not making an exact replica of Thief 1/ 2...as I said in the beginning, it's an evolution.
TTK12G3 on 19/3/2006 at 22:45
Quote Posted by Dia
I want my frickin' rope arrows back. And I want to learn to swim. :nono:
You are liking the small type?;)
...
If I understand correctly, I see that Garrett is getting his short-sword back. I think that most support this aspect from the original games, although I believe that those same people would also like more tools and flexibility (that is, being able to use and misuse a prybar) Also, the climbing gloves are an oddity. They just don't fit in the game, especially in the limit of their use(omg a corner what do I do?).
As for the removal of the 3rd person view, I am not sure. I liked the cool views from which you could look at Garrett while waiting for a lift. But its still an aesthetic feature at best.
What I personally would like to see, but am not expecting, from the project is a small acrobatic enhancement for Garrett. I don't mean make him have the skills of Prince of Persia, but something obvious and small. How much effort would it take a lightweight, seasoned thief with a moderate build to climb down a chimney or up between the space of two surfaces by pushing his legs against one wall and pressing his back on the other. The TTLG developement crew was obviously toying with this idea when they placed that ladder in that chimney that leads to the girl in the kitchen(Thief II: MA, Life of the Party, remember?).
New Horizon on 19/3/2006 at 23:08
The thing everyone needs to remember, is that while we are releasing a core functionality toolset, that doesn't prevent the community from adding to it. This is the power the Doom 3 SDK will give to the thief community, and when the doom 3 source code is released in a few years, just imagine what you'll be able to do with it.
We've got our work cut out for us with the basics. We'll leave the add ons to the rest of you. :)
ZylonBane on 19/3/2006 at 23:49
Quote Posted by TTK12G3
How much effort would it take a lightweight, seasoned thief with a moderate build to climb down a chimney or up between the space of two surfaces by pushing his legs against one wall and pressing his back on the other.
I actually like this idea. It makes perfect sense, and probably wouldn't be too hard to implement (umm, assuming certain flexibilities in the D3 engine).
