New Horizon on 17/4/2007 at 16:22
Quote Posted by cradle_curdled
Final point, above, is probably the hardest for any fan author to pull off, but all of them are equally important, to me, and dissuade me from nearly all fan efforts. Not even interested in T2X, although that's mainly due to the unfortunate inclusion of customised weapons. Guess that makes me a purist.
Doesn't make you a purist...it just means you're silly. I consider myself a purist, but I wouldn't go so far as to hold Thief2X to that same standard. It's not meant to be 'purist' Thief, it's about a completely different character. Pretty much all of the standard weapons are there...some slightly different, but they do the same thing. If you refuse to play T2X because of that...well, it's your loss really.
ZylonBane on 17/4/2007 at 16:42
Quote Posted by cradle_curdled
Not even interested in T2X, although that's mainly due to the unfortunate inclusion of customised weapons. Guess that makes me a purist.
No, that makes you an obsessive-compulsive head case. There's no shortage of things to nitpick in T2X, but "customized weapons" is beyond insignificant. You don't even play the same PERSON, and you're kvetching about slightly different-looking weapons?
Good god.
cradle_curdled on 17/4/2007 at 22:31
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Doesn't make you a purist...it just means you're silly. I consider myself a purist, but I wouldn't go so far as to hold Thief2X to that same standard. It's not meant to be 'purist' Thief, it's about a completely different character. Pretty much all of the standard weapons are there...some slightly different, but they do the same thing. If you refuse to play T2X because of that...well, it's your loss really.
Not forever ruling out playing T2X, but right now, I don't have the time or patience for projects that don't immediately grab me. And the weapons thing is a big drawback. Different character is not as big a change, from a playing standpoint. A different toolset switches your entire approach to a game, and having played Inverted Manse, I found I much preferred the original weapons.
If people really need to label me mentally-ill for that, so be it... :weird:
demagogue on 17/4/2007 at 22:31
Quote Posted by ZB
"customized weapons" is beyond insignificant
Speaking of obsessive-compulsive head cases, I think you're forgetting just how much hoo-ha you were raising about some of those "insignificances". I seem to recall more than a little clamor about a certain hammer for a knockout weapon (so much so there was a patch made to take it out) and a crystal-toggle for the custom arrows.
Not that I'm saying I loved them, but you cannot tell me you are seriously verbally pummelling cradle_curdled for complaining too maniacally about the new weapons.
That said, I'm not going to defend cradle_curdled too much, though ... T2X is what it is. Like it or not, it's still the most ambitious collaborative fan project that's made it to the finish line to date, and it stuck to its fan-made roots (even though that cost it the price of allowing a lot of the fun-sounding-but-questionable / unbalancing material getting in, IMO.) I think it deserves some recognition just for what it managed to pull off, warts and all. It was never meant to be competing with Canon material anyway, so it's no good blasting it from too high a standard. It is what it is. Most people recognized what basically worked and what didn't work about it pretty early on, I think.
El Carnemago on 17/4/2007 at 23:22
I didn't intend for this to degrade into an argument about canon-ity and original missions compared to fan-made missions.
All I wanted to know was whether or not there was/is a recreation in the Deadly Shadows engine, simply because it would be nice to play the original missions in the third engine.
Hate to mini-mod, being a newb and all.
ZylonBane on 17/4/2007 at 23:27
Quote Posted by demagogue
Not that I'm saying I loved them, but you cannot tell me you are seriously verbally pummelling cradle_curdled for complaining too maniacally about the new weapons.
My complaint with Zaya's
My First Killhammer(TM) was aesthetic. Cradle_curdled, on the other hand, seems to be under the delusion that the T2X toolset is actually functionally different. Which of course it is not (superfluous elemental arrows aside).
Gestalt on 18/4/2007 at 00:34
Quote Posted by El Carnemago
I didn't intend for this to degrade into an argument about canon-ity and original missions compared to fan-made missions.
All I wanted to know was whether or not there was/is a recreation in the Deadly Shadows engine, simply because it would be nice to play the original missions in the third engine.
Hate to mini-mod, being a newb and all.
The short answer is no. There are a few technical things that would prevent this, and recreating the levels from the previous games would also take several years of steady work from a dedicated team. Keep in mind you're talking about remaking the contents of two full games, without being able to use resources from either one.
The original T3 missions could be unified to remove their loading zones, incidentally, but nobody's shown any interest in taking on that project either. The reason nobody's done either of these is pretty much the same: It would be a large, difficult, and relatively thankless task that wouldn't allow for much in the way of self-expression or experimentation. Besides, if you did it "right" then the end result would be pretty much identical to what you had when you started.
It's the type of project that everyone wishes other people would do, basically.
sparhawk on 18/4/2007 at 07:04
Quote Posted by Gestalt
It's the type of project that everyone wishes other people would do, basically.
I wish that
somebody would get started with this. :ebil: :joke:
Not with the TDS stuff, but with the porting of T1/T2 maps. :)
That reminds me of Half Life 1. When I get a new game, which is up to date for it's current generation, then the game looks of course quite good. If you look at the same game after a few years, when the standard has progressed, you might think somehting like "Oh, my good, I remember this game looking good, but in truth it looks like shit". So Valve provided HL1 Source, which is basically the same game and everything, but textures and some stuff has been upgraded (like water ). The result is quite interesting. The HL1 Source version now looks exactly like I remember it, and not how it really looked. It looks like I remember it, because at that time it was at the current standard, so I remembered it at looking good. I bet if I would install the original version from the CD, I would also think that it looks much worse then I remember it now. So I guess the same effect would happen here as well. If somebody would recreate Thief in a modern engine exactly like it was, only with updated physics and graphics, it would most likely look as you might remember it as well, even though this memory would not be true because we already adpated to todays standards. :) The effect might not be so strong in case of Thief though, because most people still play it today, so they are still used to the looks of it.
On the other hand, I also played some really old DOS game recently because I also remembered that it looked quite good at it's time. When I saw the screen the first time, I could barely see anything, because it had such a blocky graphics (which was the best back then available). But after playing a few hours, I suddenly didn't even notice this blockiness anymore, and it started to look good, again, because I got used to it as well and the experience was pretty much the same. So it seems that effect works in both directions and you can go back in time to replay all these old games. :)
