Koki on 22/4/2008 at 05:36
Quote Posted by DaBeast
Pull your head out of ZB's ass please. DoW is a yawnfest after you have seen all the unit types and the missions become variations of "go here kill everything".
A proper
tactical game forces you to make do with what you have instead of waiting til you cap enough points or ore or w/e so you can just roll a maxed out army and tank rush etc.
Uh-oh. How about I don't reply to that, and you go and actually play an RTS or two in the meantime.
Quote:
Just because it's called 'artificer-crafted armour' rather than '+7 mail' doesn't change what it is.
But the setting does. Any bum can have a +7 mail in a world full of bums. It's
quite unlikely for an Ork to have Artificer-crafted armour since they don't use it and it's almost a relic-class equipment of not only completely different faction but a completely different species.
icemann on 22/4/2008 at 09:42
Seconded. You have no idea what your talking about DaBeast. Dawn of War isn`t a "yawnfest" in the slightest.
If you find DoW yawn inspiring, you`d be getting very little happiness from pretty much every RTS game in existance.
Matthew on 22/4/2008 at 10:30
Quote Posted by Koki
But the setting does. Any bum can have a +7 mail in a world full of bums. It's
quite unlikely for an Ork to have Artificer-crafted armour since they don't use it and it's almost a relic-class equipment of not only completely different faction but a completely different species.
I agree up to a point, though the context wasn't entirely clear from your post - you sounded like you were bemoaning such upgrades in general rather than lootable ones. Sorry for any confusion.
DaBeast on 22/4/2008 at 17:21
Quote Posted by Koki
Uh-oh. How about I don't reply to that, and you go and actually play an RTS or two in the meantime.
Originally while typing this I had a great big spiel about the history of RTS game design but I'll do you a favour and not insult your intelligence.(Maybe I should since you seem so eager to be a complete cunt.)
The one feature with all RTS is resource gathering. This is what I consider a yawnfest as the more time I spend gathering resources means less time fighting. Maybe I'm not good enough to calculate what I can build and when. I've always preferred games like ground control and StarshipTroopers TA and especially the total war series, where purely tactics are the forefront of the gameplay. Starting a fight and making do with what you have. I really don't think I can make it more clear than this.
Quote Posted by Koki
But the setting does. Any bum can have a +7 mail in a world full of bums. It's
quite unlikely for an Ork to have Artificer-crafted armour since they don't use it and it's almost a relic-class equipment of not only completely different faction but a completely different species.
So they're trying something new? It will work or it won't. Why stress? Considering that Relic have yet to release a game in the last 10 years that I hated, I'm at least willing to see what its like before spouting bile.
Quote Posted by icemann
I'm a band wagoner and am spouting shit simply because I can
Show me where I call Dawn of War a yawnfest. I have all of them and love them, but I'm not a zealot and can recognise what I deem flaws in the game design that I find boring. You could possible have realised this is what I said had you actually fucking read it.
In short, you're a cunt too.
june gloom on 22/4/2008 at 18:30
Quote Posted by DaBeast
I'm at least willing to see what its like before spouting bile.
Get off the internet, you don't belong here. :joke:
icemann on 23/4/2008 at 10:53
Quote Posted by DaBeast
Show me where I call Dawn of War a yawnfest
Ask and yee shall receive
Quote Posted by DaBeast
They're moving away from yawnfest resource collection and moving into purely tactical gameplay.
Theres one. And for another:
Quote Posted by DaBeast
DoW is a yawnfest after you have seen all the unit types and the missions become variations of "go here kill everything".
The unit types are straight out of the tabletop game, if you dont like them then I`d recommend staying away from the actual tabletop original. And the go here and kill everything side of things has been aspect of RTS games ever since Dune 2.
And unlike you I dont need to throw insults to get my point across.
Bugs on 23/4/2008 at 11:09
Quote Posted by Fafhrd
Which 40k have you been playing? If anything this brings DoW more in line with the table top.
Hmm, this certainly brings it closer to the original 40K for sure, not so sure about more recent iterations, I do know it was deinfately moving more towards largish squads of generic troop types...
Matthew on 23/4/2008 at 11:30
icemann, I don't think DaBeast meant that DoW itself was a yawnfest, just the resource collection aspect of it. 'Go here and kill everything' games aren't bad per se, but mixing them with different objectives can help relieve the monotony sometimes. I don't think it's any coincidence that the best parts of Dark Crusade for me were the base hex invasions.
Quote Posted by Bugs
Hmm, this certainly brings it closer to the original 40K for sure, not so sure about more recent iterations, I do know it was deinfately moving more towards largish squads of generic troop types...
Yeah, the jump from 2nd edition to 3rd is often described as a jump from squad-based combat to a more tactical unit-based one.
SubJeff on 23/4/2008 at 13:16
I only played the demo of DoW. I do have Company of Heroes though and it is great.
I generally dislike RTSs because many suffer from the whole tank rush nonsense. I have Homeworld 1 and 2 (though 2 is so boring later on I can't be bothered to finish it). I also have the Shogun and Medieval TW (1 only) but they aren't really the same as other RTSs because of the 2 phase thing.
I liked Dune 2 to a point (it was baaaaack in the day though), and don't like the C&Cs because of spam boredom.
Why am I posting this? Well, given my taste (as detailed) and the fact that I was a fan of WH40k tabletop back in the day, what is there that DoW or DoW2 can offer me? How different is DoW from CoH? And how different does it look DoW2 will be? I reckon you can only measure these things if you played DoW see.
DaBeast on 23/4/2008 at 13:17
Quote Posted by Matthew
icemann, I don't think DaBeast meant that DoW itself was a yawnfest, just the resource collection aspect of it. 'Go here and kill everything' games aren't bad per se, but mixing them with different objectives can help relieve the monotony sometimes. I don't think it's any coincidence that the best parts of Dark Crusade for me were the base hex invasions.
Correct.
Iceman, I said if you'd read what I posted you would realise how wrong you were. You looked for the words "yawnfest" and "dawn of war" and used them to suit your purpose. So, you are wrong WRONG WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!
@Subjective. A aggree with pretty much everything you've said. Though did you really not like the endgame fight with makan? His fleet being so overpowered, for example you have at most 5 battlecruisers or so and he had at least 8. I had to work hard and eventually try some enders game manoeuvres on them to win it.
I appreciate what CoH is, but it limited you more in terms of resources. Ultimately I never completed it because I just lost interest. With 40k though, not that I was a TT lover but I did love the lore after being introduced to it through Firewarrior (hate it if you want I care not). Where CoH is a fine RTS with WWII plot stuck on, 40k had something unique, to me at least.
