sh0ck3r on 8/1/2009 at 01:46
I said final cutscene, not ending, in case you're not making the distinction in my post. Dead Space's final cutscene is like a copy-pasted version of SS2's, the difference being that in Dead Space's it involves the main character and the character appears to be alone when it happens. If you cannot see the MASSIVE SIMILARITY in the fact that they both occur at the end in a seemingly peaceful ship and both involve a lover and a metamorphosis, then you are a fucktard.:cool:
The whole "it's a trope of the genre" argument is weak. SS2 came out 10 fucking years ago. Dead Space basically owes everything to it.
june gloom on 8/1/2009 at 02:00
First of all, splitting hairs with me over "final cutscene" versus "ending" is stupid.
Second of all, so they share a few superficial similarities- they're both twist endings and they both involve a "whew, I did it! OH SHI". That doesn't mean one necessarily ripped off the other because that's like saying Max Payne ripped off the Matrix, when both of them were inspired by John Woo.
Also, calling me a fucktard because I apparently don't see how blatantly obviously copy-pasted the ending/final cutscene/what the fuck ever of DS compared to SS2 doesn't exactly endear me to your point of view.
Angel Dust on 8/1/2009 at 02:16
The 'whew, I did it! OH SHI" is indeed a horror film cliche that had been done to death even in games before SS2 did it and is one of the reasons why I don't like the SS2 ending. To accuse Dead Space of ripping that from SS2, instead of just calling it out for being the tired old horror cliche that it is, is just dumb.
Having just got around to playing RE4 it is blindingly apparent that Dead Space owes almost everything to that game. The only things it has in common with SS are the whole alone(ish) on a spaceship were the shit hits the fan and we all know SS didn't invent that.
june gloom on 8/1/2009 at 02:32
There's a few elements from SS2 that are pretty much copied over for Dead Space, and I've mentioned them before, but I'd like for the people who scream that DS is derivative of SS2 to stop for a second and think about what they're saying because God forbid something like SS2 proves an inspiration for future games.
sh0ck3r on 8/1/2009 at 03:05
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Second of all, so they share a few superficial similarities- they're both twist endings and they both involve a "whew, I did it! OH SHI". That doesn't mean one necessarily ripped off the other because that's like saying Max Payne ripped off the Matrix, when
both of them were inspired by John Woo.
The similarities aren't superficial. If you only break down the similarities to "twist endings" and "whew, I did it! OH SHI" then they would seem superficial, but the similarities are much more pronounced than that.
Both endings may be cliche, but Dead Space's developers clearly imitated System Shock 2 overall in tons of stylistic ways and here is no exception. System Shock 2's imitating others before doesn't preclude Dead Space's most immediate inspiration being SS2.
The final cutscenes make for one example of similarity. There are countless others already pointed out and I don't think SS2 ripped them all off. :rolleyes:
But anyway, the idea of Dead Space being derivative was only 1 point in my observations on the game.
Volitions Advocate on 8/1/2009 at 05:41
As far as being derivative of SS2, Yeah.. dead space may as well BE SS2 in much the same way Bioshock tried to be SS2 with the plot and everything. Mind you the "twist" at the end was completely different
with dead space it would be closer to Deus Ex than SS2 with the conspiracy theory direction, but even that similarity is hardly similar. So don't you dare tell me how stupid I am for comparing DS to DX. And as far as the Idea of the lovers on the seeminly peaceful ship and a metamorphosis etc.... I believe your'e right that you can see DS being derivative, except that Comparing Nicole to Rebecca is the wrong derivative. Tommy and Rebecca are so Obviously supposed to be Temple and Cross. Sure I saw that emerging and immediately thought of SS2 but
it didn't exactly end well for either of them did it? and it happened long before the final cutscene.Quote:
because God forbid something like SS2 proves an inspiration for future games.
This.
Remember that we're all Irrational/LGS fags here so of course SS2 is monolithic in our discussion, but SS2 did not do well on a commercial level and did not reach very many people. Its like saying "I am Legend" stole this this and this from some zombie B-movie filmed in 1995 that went straight to VHS and sold 10,000 copies. So the more SS2 style we get to the masses the more we can expect rough diamonds in a market full of mexican-turn-your-skin-green silver. Sure its rough and not perfectly cut but its a start, we need more games like this.
And besides my interpretation of the final cutscene is a little more optimistic.
yeah she jumps in his face but I think that was more of a superficial slasher movie tactic that has no real point other than to make you go AAH! at the end of the game. EA Redwood said they created a whole universe for this game because they wanted to care about the IP and continue on with it. If you watched The comics or Downfall you'll notice that people have hallucinations. In downfall there is a scene where a pilot sees some guy on his viewscreen turn into a necromorph that crawls out of his mouth and out of the screen to attack him, and he shakes it off and it goes back to normal. Nicole couldn't have been on the ship with him because he imagined her the entire time, unless of course she was a necromorph the entire time, but even if she was he had been through hell and im' sure even if he took a shot from her he'd quickly get out of his seat and stomp her head off. Thats if there was physically a necro in there with him. And since the gravity tethers failed and that enormous continent sized piece of the planet fell back down, all the necros on the planet would've vaporized along with ageis and the marker. problem solved. Issac is still alive and there will be a sequel.Derivative .. sure. But not the parts the whiners are complaining about.
And get over the fricken camera. It takes 30 minutes of playing to get used to, its not horibblyknobgobblingly awful, its just different than you're used to, heaven forbid the dev's WANTED the camera to be slower, how the hell dare they use artistic lisence in a gameplay area to heighten the difficulty. Damn them.
EvaUnit02 on 8/1/2009 at 05:53
Quote Posted by sh0ck3r
System Shock 2's imitating others before doesn't preclude Dead Space's most immediate inspiration being SS2.
Actually I'd say that it's far more derivative of the Resident Evil series, particularly RE4.
* Survival Horror action game with fixed over-shoulder camera.
* Have to hold a button to aim your weapon.
* Run modifier key that has to be held down, otherwise you're walking.
* Shop where you can buy ammo, new weapons and
upgrades for your inventory capacity, health kits, etc.
* A network of "Magical loot chests", used for storing excess items. This concept has been carried over from older iterations of RE, not 4.
* Micro chips in DS = Loot in RE4 whose sole purpose is to be sold for more cash.
* Upgrades for specific aspects of your weapons.
sh0ck3r on 8/1/2009 at 06:40
Yeah, the similarities to SS2 are more stylistic whereas the gameplay is more RE4.
Quote Posted by Volitions Advocate
So don't you dare tell me how stupid I am for comparing DS to DX.
But wow, must say I'm surprised at the hostile tone. I never knew "fucktard" with a smiley was such a blasphemy. I don't hate Dead Space anyway (with the exception of the first 3 levels).
As for the camera, it IS absolutely screwed up in the PC version out of the box, even with vsynch off. It is a bug because for some fleeting moments in the game, the camera actually reverts to "normal" (i.e. how it is forcing vsynch thru video card). But I got through the game.
Anyway, here's a new thought:
I think the game would have been cooler with some sort of cyborg aspect, or a different take on the enemies. They are more or less just a toned-down rendition of The Many (or a derivation of something earlier; they're actually a derivation of the koopas from Super Mario Brothers!).
june gloom on 8/1/2009 at 06:52
Quote Posted by sh0ck3r
they're actually a derivation of the koopas from Super Mario Brothers!).
don't be such an incredible ass
Volitions Advocate on 8/1/2009 at 07:34
Quote Posted by sh0ck3r
But wow, must say I'm surprised at the hostile tone.
you shouldn't be on this forum. its was more a pre-emptive defense against semantics.
as for the mouse sensitivity speeding up. As far as I could tell it happened in the few points when the framerate actually starts to drop. It also happened when I was running fraps and the framerate dropped to 30. So there's obviously a corresponding relation with mouse sensitivity and framerate. Thus the Vsynch solution.
