Tony_Tarantula on 14/4/2015 at 14:24
Bah.
I just want my fix of dystopian, conspiracy theory. For me what made the original game interesting was it's relative plausability: there weren't major technology advances over today, society had declined economically, disease and pestilence had gotten worse, and so on. Particularly the environments were all plausible locations: It stands in stark contrast to Human Revolution which had two levels set in fucking Midgard, complete with plates that the upper city is built on.
nicked on 14/4/2015 at 14:35
I dunno... setting-wise, the original Deus Ex might be more plausible, but story-wise, Human Revolution is much more believable to me than the original's blender full of every conspiracy theory.
faetal on 14/4/2015 at 14:40
Yeah the original was to conspiracy theories what AC3 is to the American civil war history.
That said, I agree with Tony though, but I'm generally more into near future sci-fi than the iMtreopolis what-shall-we-do-with-all-this-extra-neon-ocracy ones.
Blade Runner for me remains the perfect sci-fi setting. Children of Men was great too. The campier ones like Fifth Element are a bit Jetsons for my liking and seem to indicate that at some point, everything was torn down and re-built from scratch, rather than the staggered patchwork you might expect in reality.
Tony_Tarantula on 18/4/2015 at 01:16
Good point about the design.
There's been something else bugging me about the dev statements and I just figured it out. They postulate that most people played stealthy, therefore the shooting mechanics need improvement. It's a dubious assertion because the game explicitly rewards stealthy playstyles: you get more XP for knockouts than kills, more for takedowns than long range kills, and a large bonus for completing objectives without being detected.
Incentives shape behavior: the lack of "shooty" players doesn't mean the gameplay mechanisms are designed badly, it just means that people are conforming to the game's reward system.
You want to make a game with balanced playstyles? It doesn't mean you need to go all Gears of War the way Mass Effect tried to. In the case of Deus Ex they could do it much more effectively by stripping out all XP rewards except those given for objective completion and exploration. Do anything else and you reward stealthy or violent players, you reward shooters over meleers, and so on. Even an enemy take down bonus rewards players who kill everything in sight over ghosters.
nicked on 18/4/2015 at 05:38
Except you don't, because shooting everyone is always inherently easier than stealthing past everyone. That's why trying to make both playstyles equally viable is like trying to have your cake and eat it. The problem with giving people options is that there is always a path of least resistance.
Pyrian on 18/4/2015 at 05:43
Quote Posted by nicked
...shooting everyone is always inherently easier than stealthing past everyone..
I don't believe that at all. Longer, perhaps. But easier? No. Don't get me wrong, it was easier in DX1 and DX:IW for the most part. But that's because there's no tough enemies. You can always make it easier to stealth by making the enemies tougher, eventually culminating in titles where the enemies cannot be beat at all (Alien: Isolation).
heywood on 18/4/2015 at 11:05
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
You want to make a game with balanced playstyles? It doesn't mean you need to go all Gears of War the way Mass Effect tried to.
In the case of Deus Ex they could do it much more effectively by stripping out all XP rewards except those given for objective completion and exploration. Do anything else and you reward stealthy or violent players, you reward shooters over meleers, and so on. Even an enemy take down bonus rewards players who kill everything in sight over ghosters.
I agree. The bonus system also encouraged hacking everything whether you needed to or not. I was a bit of an XP whore when I started the game. After Montreal, I thought why the hell am I playing like this when I already have all the augs I want? The next time I played, I just ignored the XP bonuses and enjoyed it a lot more.
Dev_Anj on 18/4/2015 at 16:51
Quote Posted by nicked
Except you don't, because shooting everyone is always inherently easier than stealthing past everyone.
Not necessarily true. I've started up the first Deus Ex a few times on Realistic difficulty, and everytime I've tried to shoot every terrorist down, I get JC's head blown off, or his torso crushed within like a few seconds. In such situations, making sure to get the drop on the NPCs and getting guaranteed kills or knockouts would be easier than full shootouts.
Oh, and yes, I haven't played much of Deus Ex on Realistic difficulty because of that. I know, I know, I should get used to the high damage numbers and play a little more carefully.
zajazd on 18/4/2015 at 16:58
Human Devolution was the most plastic, dull and annoying game I tried to play and I expect no less from the sequel.
van HellSing on 18/4/2015 at 17:09
I *tried* playing HR the shooty way, and found it much harder and more frustrating than playing it stealthily, at least on "give me Deus Ex". And that was a New Game+ playthrough, with all augs unlocked.
So I actually like the idea of making the shooty style more valid and fun.
