Theef on 29/1/2002 at 18:52
I found the Trickster to be a very anti-climatic "boss" type-guy. He's really like a baddie from "Underdog". (Yes, I've stamped a date on my forehead.) He doesn't use his powers, really. He uses Garrett as a pawn. I mean, if he's a god and omniscient, what does he need Garrett for? If he's a god, he's a two-bit god wanna-be. You could just as easily have used a demented, heretic Hammerite in that role in the plot to bring chaos ("punishment") down upon the world.
Talgor on 30/1/2002 at 09:01
Perhaps he is a god bound by rules? Perhaps he, or maybe even all the gods, have to obey certain rules (this usually is the case in universes with more than one god, since they can't ALL be omnipotent.. even the concept of a single omnipotent and omniscient god is a difficult one, as theologians have discovered), and perhaps one of those rules is that only through the actions of mortals (even mortals who work only for their own benefit?) he can truly "enter" the world (which seemed to be what he was up to)...
Darkwarrior on 30/1/2002 at 14:23
I don't think anyone knows about the Keepers except Garrett and anyone else they have contact with. The whole purpose of the Keepers is to remain hidden and undetected, and they do it very well.
PCommish on 30/1/2002 at 20:41
Didn't the Mages and Hammerites most likely know about the Keepers since they each had Talismans from them? These are two pretty large groups of people. With that many people knowing a secret it's hard for it to remain secret. Plus, there is a Keeper statue in the Bank, and they have large compounds throughout the City, so it seems that they may very well have a larger presence than what we think. I think that there are a lot of rumors of their existence, and some believe them, and others blow off the idea. Much like modern day conspiracy theories of groups subtley controlling the world.
-editted for spelling/grammar
Darkwarrior on 30/1/2002 at 20:57
Ok, common people don't know who they are. Sure, they have large compounds and stuff, but no one actually ever sees a keeper unless they want you to. So how could anyone actually prove they exist, anyway?
Whisper on 30/1/2002 at 21:06
Yeah, I think the Keepers were more along the lines of Illuminati. People heard of them, but not necessarily believed in their existence, until personal encounter.
And the Trickster was really a very minor god with only so much power and control...so even if he was familiar with the Keeper conspiracy, he probably didn't feel the need to give in to it.
RoofWalker on 30/1/2002 at 21:57
I assumed that, while the Trickster might be very powerful indeed in the pagan world, his power is limited in the City because he has very little control over the human world. hence the need to have otherss do the hard work for him until he can reclaim the world and return to former glory.
mr_luc on 31/1/2002 at 07:21
He needed the Eye.
It's about that simple. When you think about it, look at how well the eye was protected. The hammers saw that the entire section of city was blocked off, it was choked with zombies, and you couldn't get into the Cathedral without the talismans. That Cathedral was locked down tight. Obviously, if he thought he could waltz in, lay waste to everything, and grab it, he would have. And if he didn't need it he wouldn't have bothered at all, he would have just taken over everything. But the point is that evidently he knew that, at least in THIS realm, where he was not powerful, he had to have the Eye before he could act.
Most likely, he knew that there was no way he could possibly hope to get the talismans without raising enough suspicion in the Hammers (who knew about the Trickster AND the Eye and had helped defeat him once at the height of his power) that he would never make off with the Eye except by trickery. And in Garrett he found one whose skill was beyond compare.
I think the Trickster was an AWESOME enemy, although in the game I think he was a bit of a letdown to see in person . . . heh I know it was a weak engine graphically, but honestly, would a few extra polys have hurt in the climactic part of the game? Anyways, it was still an incredible story, and the whole trickster plot is still great to my mind.
P.S. -- and I don't think that he knew anything about the Keepers other than vague rumors. Although since he had undoubtedly made inquiries, he almost certainly knew that someone was responsible for sealing the Cathedral so well . . .
Heck, maybe he did know, and chose Garrett for that very reason, that he had left the Keepers! Ho, I never thought of that. He may have figured that if anyone can beat them, he can. If Garrett brought him the Eye, he wins. If not, well, he still has lots of rat-things!
Diceman on 31/1/2002 at 15:48
The Trickster is like a Greek or Roman god. These guys were not at all like our God. They were very powefull, but not all-powerfull, or all-knowing, and not even especially good or moral. Think of them like an ancient version of the X-Men and you've got the basic idea. The Builder, OTOH, is much more like our idea of a God.
Miang on 31/1/2002 at 16:22
Be a bit careful with how you swing those "our's" around...
I don't know whether the Keepers' existance is rumored at or not but in the Keeper compound in the old city there's a text that mentions something along the lines of "While we agree that your actions (Using the Talismans) were necessary... we fear that they've come dangerously close to revealing the truth of our existance to the world".
I do think that the Trickster probably knew about them though; first off he had the Eye, which seems to possess a bit of sentience and which knew about the Keepers.
Secondly, another Keeper text refers to the Trickster's "Pridefully chosen pawn". The Keepers were responsible in part for the Trickster's original defeat, given that Garrett is kind of a renegade Keeper the Trickster using him to recover the Eye fits the passage. If the Trickster thought Garrett was just an ordinary thief the "Pridefully chosen pawn" part doesn't really seem to fit...
