nicked on 2/8/2008 at 13:15

---

true, maybe it could have done with a comment or two, but would it really have changed their plans? They still had to go ahead and investigate the cetus project. They already knew to watch their backs. I think it maybe sped them on with their plans, but wouldn't really need any following up.

And yes, Karras showed his hand, but he wasn't counting on Garrett making it out alive. I'd say it's very in character for him to leave Garrett a cocky message before having him killed!

There are piles of bones with maces in the maw, and a mechanist impaled on a treebeast in the cutscene after. Doesn't mean any made it out alive though, I'll concede!

nicked on 3/8/2008 at 09:01

---

the pagan ghosts?

Muzman on 4/8/2008 at 01:55

---

Which is precisely the hokiest villain cliche ever. It sticks out far enough for that reason alone, never mind how tacked onto the story it is. I'm all for a challenging sneak back, but yeesh.


They didn't find out what Viktoria already knew. The operation was meant to discover the Cetus project some more and find out who was in charge. That and investigating what happened to Lotus give good reason to take a closer look at Markham's Isle.
I thought about Lotus informing as an option, but he's apparently been uncovered some time ago. Short of some tedius magic communication excuse it seems unlikely that he'd know anything of Garrett joining their cause.
If Viktoria's spies and couriers are privy to all the activities at the upper levels of the operation and/or kept up to date via magical communication means, making them perfect for extracting every bit of info about Pagan plans under torture, she really ought to get out of the spy game. That sort of thing is just going to cause trouble.

Anyway, I can't help but look at it like this: Garrett wanders into hostile territory looking for answers. He runs face to face with an old foe, immediately challanges them to a fight or wants to go on his way. Instead he's mostly forced into some ritualised alliance. Now, even allowing for his probable mixed feelings about the whole thing (which is necessary for how things play out later) the first thing that happens, the very first thing, is that he is sent on his most dangerous mission yet via this new alliance and its ongoing investigations. When he gets there the specifc goal, not the nobles, not the money or anything else a thief might be interested in, but an otherwise bare office desk... This turns out the be a trap, complete with message that basically says the 'target' knew Garrett was coming. He knew, in advance, Garrett was coming, into this room on this very night. This is his first assignment, in his new alliance with his old enemy and public enemy number one, and it's a trap.
I'm quite sure Garrett's pride extends to not being betrayed, or at least taking steps to prevent it. Maybe he's literally blinded by passion and figures he might end up getting two brass eyes instead of one so it's all good. Even if that's the case a simple "Oh btw Vik honey, your operation's exposed. Karras knows everything we're doing. Your agents are probably being rounded up and killed as we speak." is probably in order. It should be earth shaking. It should cause a major reaction. As said, it doesn't even need to change anything of the plot. It could even be used to drive it into high gear, increase the urgency and expland the sense of the world. There's brilliant dramatic opportunities there on G & Vs mistrust, or lack thereof, alone! If they'd actually thought it through.

I know what happened (I reckon anyway). They couldn't resist the hokey jokey scare. And its indicative of the kind of thing people will justify post hoc if they like the overall. Although every time we do, in games and TV or where ever, writing gets worse. That up there doesn't make a lick of sense as it stands, doing explanatory backflips over what we don't know and didn't see just underlines it. What is logically a major event isn't treated as one, for whatever reason (they forgot, they were lazy, the weird develpment of T2 messed things up). But we'll explain it away, because we like T2, and we grew up watching bad TV and cliches just slide right on by. Hell, they're even expected. They're just not expected to mean anything. Happens all the time in fandom. But it really shouldn't. (I know people's reading of plot logic and character isn't always going to see eye to eye. But this is particularly bad one for me. Leaving that hanging like that probably marks where the game went downhill for me).

Elster on 4/8/2008 at 23:36

---

Hmm about the trap in Karras office... I just think that Karras knew what Garret was able to, after all he was there in the whole Dark Project thing, so he knew how good Garret was. He expected him sooner or later, and the party was the perfect opportunity (foreign people in the building, a bit of a chaos, lower security, not as many Mechanists crawling around...)
That Garret and Victoria worked together and that Garret got even some feelings for her made sense for me. Victoria made quite clear that she was honest with her offer and Garret didn't have much of a choice. Also she was not badlooking and had some good erm ... female assets, and Garret is also just a lonely man...

But plotholes never worried me much, it's a game and not some English Literature Exam ^^

What i never really accepted is that Garret could eat more food in minutes than a full house in weeks. Doesen't he ever get fat?

Knock on 6/8/2008 at 00:04

---

True, but I mean come on, a whole deer leg? In one go??