driver on 4/7/2015 at 21:11
Quote Posted by Judith
Nah, that was a deliberate choice they made, they said it in the interviews. The idea was to make players create their own version of Corvo, be it the vengance-driven psychopath or whatever you choose to be. If they had given Corvo a voice, especially during the interaction with Emily and friends, they would have suggested a certain approach. (Or, those accusations of ludonarrative dissonance would appear this instant.) As Thirith said earlier, there is no inherent good or bad in using such device. I guess the only 'bad' thing is that they overestimated how imaginative their audience can be, at least by what you can read on the Internet. Still, that doesn't undermine the concept.
It's not a question of imagination, it's just thoroughly jarring for a character to never open his mouth when events are taking place around him. Meekly accepting whatever happens, then carrying on regardless doesn't fire the imagination, it breaks the atmosphere. The only way the player could shape the story was by either murdering or sparing people, that doesn't really contribute to a memorable character.
Judith on 4/7/2015 at 21:29
If you don't want any boundaries in terms of the story, you can always choose Tetris ;) Your personality isn't limited to two options, there are playstyles in-between (just see above), and you can change your approach anytime you like. Silent protagonist and dialogue list options are just a choice of symbols for interaction, just as the keys or buttons are mapped to certain movement functions. It's a part of the model you accept (or reject). You can be your character and feel immersed in the world of RPGs like Fallout, as long as the system becomes like a second skin to you - Dishonored isn't much different from that. People may not like this system, but that doesn't make it wrong per se. The same goes for controls, it's always been a debate, especially in the context of simulation. And, Dis1 is still better in alleviating the LND effect than fully-voiced characters in e.g. Bioshock Infinite or Tomb Raider (reboot).
driver on 4/7/2015 at 21:47
The way you dispatch foes in Dishonored doesn't make Corvo a less or more interesting character. He doesn't have any personality, so there is no character for the player to create that has any meaning inside the game. Sure you can sit there and imagine what he might have said, but the other characters won't react to that and the game will carry on regardless whether you stab a guy or perform the fancy manoeuvres in the video posted above.
Take the example I mentioned before of getting stiffled by Custis. Corvo doesn't react and the game carries on. That's your LND right there, the bloodthirsty Corvo would have slit his throat, the passive one might have spiked his drink and doodled on his face with a pen. When Daud is double crossed, his reactions depend on whether you've been bloodthirsty or stealthy, the result being either a bloodbath or a merciful exile. This makes his a far more interesting a fleshed-out character whilst still respecting the player's play style.
Jason Moyer on 4/7/2015 at 23:59
Pretty much every RPG prior to Mass Effect had a silent protagonist (I guess the PC in Arx was sort of voiced, and Deus Ex, and if one word counts, SS2), this is honestly the first time I've ever seen anyone argue that it was a poor design choice. Of everything I've seen of Fallout 4, having a voiced protagonist is the one thing that makes me feel a little uneasy (and I hope like hell there's an option to disable it).
Slasher on 5/7/2015 at 00:06
There is an effective way of doing "fill-in-the-blank" storytelling. I don't think it is a poor choice in general, just in this case.
Or, to put it more politely, it could have been done better.
driver on 5/7/2015 at 00:31
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
Pretty much every RPG prior to Mass Effect had a silent protagonist
Citation Needed.
Jason Moyer on 5/7/2015 at 01:05
I guess it depends on how strict your definition of "silent" is. If you don't include party banter as being voiced, then there's obviously Baldur's Gate I & II, both Icewind Dales, Planescape Torment, etc. If you don't include one word, there's System Shock 2 and South Park The Stick Of Truth. The PC never talks in Ultima Underworld or System Shock, right?
Let's see. Dungeon Master, Eye Of The Beholder, Dragon Wars, Times Of Lore, Knights Of Legend, Bard's Tale, Wizardry, Wasteland, Fallout, The Elder Scrolls, Jade Empire, Knights Of The Old Republic, Shadowrun Returns/Dragonfall, Temple Of Elemental Evil, Vampire Bloodlines, Arcanum, Divine Divinity, Dragon Age Origins, Torchlight, Titan Quest, Dungeons Of Dredmor, Legend Of Grimrock, Ultima whatever, Dark Souls, Super Mario RPG, Kingdoms Of Amalur, Ys, Fable, the early Final Fantasies, etc etc I'm bored. And yeah, some of those came after Mass Effect, I'm not a goddamn encyclopedia here.
Not an RPG, but there's also Grand Theft Auto III. Which was largely my favorite GTA (and the only modern one I've finished) because of the blank-slate silent protagonist.
What I'm wondering is a.) who the first voiced protagonist in a videogame was and b.) who the first voiced protagonist in a game with dialog options was.
driver on 5/7/2015 at 01:28
My definition of 'silent' would be 'Doesn't speak', not 'Isn't voice acted', so right off the bat that's Baldur's Gate, Planscape, Fallout, Jade Empire, KotR, Shadowrun, Vampire, Arcanum, Dragon Age, Ultima, FF etc off your list for starters.
Then there's Deus Ex, Silver, Neverwinter Nights, Vampire:The Masquerade - Redemption, Anacronox, Gothic 1 & 2, Guild Wars... Oh look I'm bored too.
While quite a few have silent protagonists, by no stretch of the imagination could you say that 'most' RPGs have them. In fact, dialogue is generally a key feature in any RPG that couldn't be defined as an 'Action' RPG eg. Diablo or straight up dungeon crawlers eg. Grimrock. While the dialogue might not be voiced (be that because it's old, or by design decision), it's pretty much 50/50 with regards to silent protagonists.
:edit:
Is Dishonored even an RPG, anyway?
Jason Moyer on 5/7/2015 at 02:25
If you use "doesn't speak" then Dishonored is off the list too.
Judith on 5/7/2015 at 07:33
You could see it as an RPG, like those pen-and-paper RPGs with focus on storytelling, where you don't use dice and stats every time you try to lift a finger... Yeah, I liked that Vampire sessions way more than Warhammer ;)
And the Loyalists' betrayal isn't an LND, it's more like a narrative 'chokepoint'. The plot is an archetypal framework for your actions and this particular event is hardly surprising. Devs are well aware of that, so they use ambient music that suggests there's something bad going to happen anyway, and for a moment you can relax and go with the flow to see what happens next.
Again, there's nothing wrong with the silent protagonist concept, and Dishonored isn't a bad example of it - they successfully used both systems, in a pretty traditional way, as means to an end. I understand why my Corvo is silent and Daud fully-voiced, because I think I see the reasons behind those creative choices. Also, I don't get people who simply keep on bashing valid concepts they don't like, but that's just me ;)
