Dithering in Thief Gold

Spike700 on 10/3/2006 at 18:08

Wondering if there is a way to enable 16bit dithering in Thief TDP/Gold? Thief 2 has it enabled as does system shock 2. Therefor there should be a way to enable dithering in TG. IMO this greatly improves the textures in Thief, but I have found no way of forcing 16bit dithering on newer vid cards

Shadowcat on 11/3/2006 at 13:26

I recommend against dithering in Thief. A simple two-hour mission might easily take twice that long or more to complete once you factor in dithering, not to mention the heightened risk of a guard noticing you while you're distracted by all the many available options. Stay focused!

That said, it is also worth noting that Thief 2 and System Shock 2 both utilise an enhanced Dark Engine, so while I do not know for certain about this particular feature, it certainly does not stand to reason that all engine features available in those games are also available in T1/TG.

Spike700 on 11/3/2006 at 17:59

Quote Posted by Shadowcat

I am not sure what you mean buy this, 16bit dithering is a rendering option. It would not effect gameplay

Quote:

That said, it is also worth noting that Thief 2 and System Shock 2 both utilise an enhanced Dark Engine, so while I do not know for certain about this particular feature, it certainly does not stand to reason that all engine features available in those games are also available in T1/TG.

I am not sure I would call the version of the Dark Engine used in SS2 enhanced, modifided yes. It was built on the same version used for TDP. Also the Developers Notes for SS2 claim that with a modified exe the version of the Dark Engine used for SS2 could still play thief levels.

I just want to know if anybody knows of a way to get TG/TDP to enable 16bit dithering.

Komag on 11/3/2006 at 20:06

Quote Posted by Shadowcat

I think the term is "dilly-dallying", haha :D

Shadowcat on 11/3/2006 at 21:50

Well dilly-dallying is quite different to dithering, but it would certainly have a similar effect on the time taken to complete a mission :) (if only you could dilly-dally colours...)

Quote Posted by Spike700

I am not sure what you mean buy this, 16bit dithering is a rendering option. It would not effect gameplay

Sorry, just a (very) little (http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/dither) joke.

I know that for a significant portion of the project the same Dark engine could run both Thief and SS2, but I don't believe that remained the case for the entire project (which may not be relevant here depending on what sort of changes were made, but it's not out of the question).

Quote:

Also the Developers Notes for SS2 claim that with a modified exe the version of the Dark Engine used for SS2 could still play thief levels.

But perhaps not vice-versa?

Anyway, none of this is to say it's definitely not possible. Hopefully someone else can confirm one way or the other. I had just thought it was worth pointing out that as there had been changes made, it might not be a given that it could be done.

Spike700 on 12/3/2006 at 04:40

I have both TG and SS2 installed(as well as T2 and T2X)on my legacy system. It currently has an ATI Rage 128pro in it. The drivers for all of the Rage line allow dithering to be forced regardless if the app calls for it or not. So it doesn't really matter much although I would like to use a faster card.

I have compared all of the ini files for TG and SS2 and the option doesn't appear to be in any of them.

The only reason I can think of for LGS not to enable dithering in thief was the fact that most 3d cards out at the time the game was released forced 16bit dithering regardless. The renderer doesn't have to support it, it just has to tell the vid drivers to turn it on.

jermi on 12/3/2006 at 17:01

Indeed, it's something like

Code:

SetRenderState(D3DRENDERSTATE_DITHERENABLE, TRUE);

If only we had the source. Or if only someone would find the calls in the executables, or suitable places to add some calls. Of course, if we could get that far, we wouldn't care about dithering, we could simply set the display bit depth to 32.

Spike700 on 12/3/2006 at 17:39

Quote Posted by jermi

Indeed, it's something like

Code:

SetRenderState(D3DRENDERSTATE_DITHERENABLE, TRUE);

Source code would be nice. Has anyone tried to get a petition going to get Eidos to release the source code?

I am not so sure 32bit would help much, ATI claims that to enable AA in 16bit games that the drivers run the card in 32bit colour, and it doesn't help the textures at all, but it could be because the game is still rendering 16bit and the card is converting the completed image to 32bit therefore copy all of the 16bit flaws?

32bit can be forced through the ini's but gives an error, I kinda think that the renderer would have to be rewritten to enable 32bit colour.

Shadowcat on 12/3/2006 at 23:29

Quote Posted by Spike700

Source code would be nice. Has anyone tried to get a petition going to get Eidos to release the source code?

I don't know, but they quite likely don't own it. Unfortunately (due to consequent confusion caused) LGS' assets were sold off to many different parties when they were wound up.

Macsen on 13/3/2006 at 00:01

Quote Posted by Shadowcat

I don't know, but they quite likely don't own it. Unfortunately (due to consequent confusion caused) LGS' assets were sold off to many different parties when they were wound up.

The only way to find out is to tamper with the product and see who sues first.