ercles on 26/3/2009 at 23:08
Guys can we just cut to the poorly written erotic Hammerite fanfic already and get on with our lives?
jtr7 on 26/3/2009 at 23:09
Okay, you start.
Herr_Garrett on 27/3/2009 at 06:42
Aye, aye.
(Actually, ManicMan, there are rules in early modern English, and such examples as the Hammerites' speech, or Shakespeare, do conform with them. If you'd like to, I can share them with you.) No offence meant here, mark you.
ManicMan on 27/3/2009 at 08:25
It would be of intrest. I know most stuff like how people believed the writing was is junk (they didn't write 'Olde' for example, in fact, the ones that could write were pretty good) and i know alot of the thou and stuff was only in plays (a number of reviews from the time comment on how bad that was.. sorry, i can't remember where the reviews are.. probebly in a musem somewhere when i saw them). Anyway, my feelings about Shakespear aside, it would be intresting to read ^_^
jtr7 on 27/3/2009 at 08:29
It should be noted that there is a strong note of satire about Christian religiosity in how the Hammers are portrayed.
Holy Thief on 27/3/2009 at 09:05
From fairest creatures we desire increase,
That thereby beauty's rose might never die,
But as the riper should by time decease,
His tender heir might bear his memory:
But thou contracted to thine own bright eyes,
Feed'st thy light's flame with self-substantial fuel,
Making a famine where abundance lies,
Thy self thy foe, to thy sweet self too cruel:
Thou that art now the world's fresh ornament,
And only herald to the gaudy spring,
Within thine own bud buriest thy content,
And, tender churl, mak'st waste in niggarding:
Pity the world, or else this glutton be,
To eat the world's due, by the grave and thee.
Gambit on 27/3/2009 at 12:34
It ocurred to me that Karras could be the protestant equivalent of hammerite "catholicism".
(except that Luther didn't want to kill all nature of course)
Karras isn't satisfied with the way of the hammerites. So he makes his mechanist group that accepts women. Women can be shepherds in protestant temples (and in real life these religious leaders can also marry and have a family, no celibacy).
Surely the gamer's intention wasn't about a direct analogy with real life. But the "hammerist reformation" idea surely had some inspirations from protestantist just as hammerites were clearly inspired from christianity and the templar knights.
As for TDS not having nuns...
My speculation is that hammerite nuns live in isolated covents, and make poverty vows. Since they don't have any gold Garrett never saw any profit visiting them.
Shadowriku95 on 27/3/2009 at 14:17
Well, ok , I'm new here , but it occured to me that in the Church of England, women can become, like, priests, but you aren't talking about priests, even though in the mechanists have women priests, but for example, in the level ''Eavesdropping'' in Thief: the Metal age, down in the cellar, next to the interrogation room, when you down, and hide in the shadows next to the crypt door, you can hear, and see, that one of the mechanists talking is a woman, so I suppose they would be the equivalent to nuns in the mechanist church.
But since I can't seem to find any nuns in the Hammerite church, in all three games, after playing hours on end, the only way possible to make a convent of hammerite nuns would be to edit, or create your own levels.
Shame there is none anyways, those hammerites must be sexist. :mad::tsktsk:
Holy Thief on 27/3/2009 at 15:16
Yes! the middle ages were very sexist with rare occurrences, which I won't go into here. But the fact is would you accept a celibate 'male' Order involving women? We have seen in history that this is a dangerous practice in monastic societies where Abbot and Abbess would congregate together. The Templars were not allowed to associate with women, 70th Rule of their order. yet there are instances of women supporting the Templars, not members of the Templar Order itself.
Rule 71, they were forbidden to kiss a woman, be it their mother, sister, aunt etc.
We should have a poll. :idea:
jtr7 on 28/3/2009 at 08:04
Hmm...Wait a sec... In TDP/Gold and TDS there were no female guards. TDS had women thugs, women pagan leaders, women in charge of people and things, but no female Hammerites, manor guards, or City Watch. TMA had women guards and priestesses amongst the Mechanists, women City Watch, and women manor guards.
