Do Keepers only keep in the city?

Moi Dix Mois on 7/6/2007 at 09:15

Wasn't The City losing its war during Thief 2? Something about enemy troops on the doorstep, or near enough?
If I remembered that rightly I wouldn't say The City is the most important or the most powerful, but maybe just one of a few large, powerful city-states, of somewhat equal wealth and influence, like in old Europe.

That's nothing but speculation obviously. To my mind the setting is much more compelling if The City isn't the absolute cultural, political and economic centre of the world. Makes speculation about the outside a little more interesting at any rate.

Solabusca on 7/6/2007 at 10:31

Quote Posted by Moi Dix Mois

I don't necessarily mean temporally the most important - I think that the City has ... well, a history of being the centre of things. I mean ... Garret basically stops what could become pretty extreme levels of BADNESS on three separate occasions - and they all take place within the City.

I'd say that from a metaphysical sense, it's pretty damned important - big things happen in the City. So not only is it a nexus of all this strangeness, it's also a major trade city as well.

Let's not forget, the City has no name other than that by dint of it's age and importance - similar to how Constantinople was called "The City" by the Greeks because it was, for all intents and purposes, the major urban centre of the world - I'd wager that the Thief City has a similar background as a powerful city-state.

.j.

Dussander on 7/6/2007 at 11:35

Thief's City reminds me of Prachett's Anhk-Morpork a lot, for some reason, except more dark. They're both large cities on the coast with links to ships by docks. Their neighbours generally don't like them and go to war with ease. The populous' are diverse in culture and religion. The vast number of guilds of Anhk vs. factions of the City, f.e. they both have a thieves guild. Both cities are dangerous to travel in, the Shades vs. the Docks, and both cities have nobles, wealthy families and a city watch (named the same).

The Dark Mod definately has a Prachett quality to me, perhaps there are a few fans on that project. :>

Or is it just me? :<

Solabusca on 7/6/2007 at 19:14

Ankh-Morpork is basically Pratchett's homage to Lankhmar. Hell, the first book has his tribute to Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser (Bravd and the Weasel).

And you can definitely see influences in Thief.

.j.

Beleg Cúthalion on 7/6/2007 at 20:12

Quote Posted by Solabusca

No, that'd be me. And I've already disproven it. Garret spends time outside of the City in several missions. Ships come and go. Product comes in from outside.
Anyways, thanks for trying.

If I had a coin for everytime people don't get the meaning of my posts...

Quote Posted by me; intellectual elements of Thief that just came to my mind, from the screenplay thread

- my favourite one: the nutshell idea...giving the feeling that there is nothing outside the City, of course mention Blackbrook and other things, but make everyone bound to this great nasty town without any chance to escape it's tentacles

I think the original title "Dark Camelot" goes along with your Constantinople example. But still...if we took my literary perspective, things would be a lot easier.

jtr7 on 8/6/2007 at 00:57

Quote:

Wasn't The City losing its war during Thief 2? Something about enemy troops on the doorstep, or near enough?

Here's the transcription:

ex10502A: "What's the latest on the war, Raleigh?"
no10502B: "(Worried exhalation) Lord Anders hasn't received a report in some time. The last he heard, it was not going well. I fear the Baron may return with the battlefield coming right up behind him."
ex10502C: "I think you worry too much. This city is like a fortress. With the Mechanists here to help us defend The City, we needn't fret about it."
no10502D: "(Contemptuous snorting laugh) I think you put too much faith in the Mechanists. Afterall…they are only a splinter group of the Hammerites. Hardly a military force. They seem concerned only with aiding nobles with their fancy inventions. Their tin soldiers wouldn't last long against a real army."
ex10502E: "Well…until I see a battle going on outside my window, I shant worry about it."

Palantir on 8/6/2007 at 07:48

We need some solid evidence....

Quote:

*Fellow Keepers, we undo ourselves, our very fabric unravels - and as we fare, so fares the City... - Note left for the Keeper Council, author unknown
*An eternal cycle, falling and rising, rebirth and death. The hopeful and the greedy give rise to the city we observe.
We share its misfortune. We balance when the scales tip. But we do not grieve for the fallen. - Keeper Annals, History of the City
*Imagine the City as a youth precariously balanced on the precipice of a deep ravine. We are the Keepers of that balance. - from The Eight Principles

Well, the conclusion is that keepers only keep in the city.

jtr7 on 8/6/2007 at 18:42

The doubt expressed by others remains. We know for a fact that the Keepers in The City, keep the balance of The City, and are only concerned with The City (and the Hand Mages beyond it).

This doesn't refute the possibility that there are other cities with their own Keepers who are unconcerned about THE City. So really, the question, and the debate, remain.

Palantir on 9/6/2007 at 12:50

Each city with their own Keepers, and each Keepers, their own city.....

jtr7 on 11/6/2007 at 04:28

It would have to be that way, if there are Keepers elsewhere. Adding to the pure specualtion, they might not all be Keepers of Balance. They may be Keepers of the Clever Baton Which Keeps Unnatural Sorcery At Abeyance. Or Keepers of Foofie Bunnies. They might not be Keepers of Secrets or Keepers of Knowledge, but Keepers of Creepers. Jeepers!

And don't get anybody started on the Sacred Order of the Holy Burrick.