Herbrand on 21/2/2009 at 13:53
Greetings fellow taffers, I have recently started playing Thief 2 again after a long time and just yesterday I was contemplating how QuickSave can affect the game experience.
Quicksave has pros and cons; from the immersion point of view, for example, it can be bad: if we quicksave every time we are scared, tense or in trouble, yes we know we can fail and retry as much as we want, which is comforting, but also (magic word) breaks the immersion.
To immerse into the game, to experience being a master of shady arts in Thief's world, I want to share the tension of those moments, evaluating what I want to do taking into account its risk and eventually delaying or aborting risky sub tasks according to what I perceive my chances of success are. If I quicksave every three steps I take, I know that my chances of success are always 100% whatsoever.
Also, finally ghosting Shipping and Receiving without saving after many tries is tremendously satisfying.
On the other hand, sometimes we need quicksave to balance the problems of the Dark Engine: yesterday in a run of mission 2 I was almost being caught by a patrol in Building A, so I attempted to hide myself in the waste chute (the "stairs" you can most easily enter the building from). Well, said tunnel is only a few units wider than the player model, and attempting to enter it requires jumping: more often than not, the "master thief" Garrett will miserably jump on the spot, making a loud noise and getting spotted, unable to enter an open hole in front of him just because there is a step lower than his knee.
This is totally, utterly frustrating - and fully justifies a quicksave.
Other examples include falling through a ledge around building A because sometimes you partially fall through them, trying to climb down some stairs and missing them, falling to your death, or trying to climb a crate just to jump on the spot and making noise again.
They should really have made jumping and climbing two different buttons plus a third which mixes them, like they did with block/jump.
This really shows how the Dark Engine is outdated compared to engines like, for example, the one of Left 4 Dead, where climbing and even crouching are automatic whenever your movement and the environment suggest that as the most natural action.
So in short: I'd love to run all levels without saving mid-way, to enjoy and taste to their fullest the emotions that this game can summon - I've done that with my first run of Doom 3 as well; but I feel that the engine itself is a limit, in this context.
SlyFoxx on 21/2/2009 at 16:09
I quicksave constantly because of engine bugs...you never know when the player camera is going to get stuck.
JonesCrusher on 21/2/2009 at 16:35
I have never quicksaved ever.
I usually do a proper save when in a safe place......when ever I feel that enough game play has passed for me not to want to go back and play it again.....
it doesnt seem to affect my immersion....I usually play when everyone has gone to bed and I can get some serious play in,for a couple hours,with the lights down and the dog snoring......I stop for fag breaks and have to go outside to smoke and its quite creepy being out in the pitch dark, wind and sometimes rain,this also helps the immersion and can be quite creepy....
"Out in the cold and the damp and the rain,while thems upstairs with all the light and all the favors":D
atolonen on 21/2/2009 at 17:11
I quicksave & save a lot, but I load the saves very seldom. The saves are just there in case the games crashes, you get stuck, and similar problems occur. I find it very entertaining and adding to the immersion when you make a mistake you keep playing instead of loading. It's highly interesting trying to run away from a half level's worth of alerted guards, working your way up from a almost nonexistent health after a botched jump, etc.
Quote Posted by Herbrand
...where climbing and even crouching are automatic whenever your movement and the environment suggest that as the most natural action.
I must say I don't like it when the game does the thinking for me. I'd rather take the problems of having to jump onto a small ledge in a small hole like you described than letting the game control my character when I don't want it to. I really don't need the character to start trying to climb a wall when I'm trying to run alongside it when guards are a couple of meters behind me.
Thor on 21/2/2009 at 17:48
I am cursed. I am too much bound with perfection. I quicksave nearly everywhere. I should seriously stop doing it, but you know - leaving habbits is hard. So i guess next time i play A night In Rocksbourg, i'll live without saves...
And ofcourse there is the engine matter. Getting stuck in the middle of a long mission might be rather frustrating.
BrokenArts on 21/2/2009 at 18:08
Nope, hard save for me, always.
Paulie007 on 21/2/2009 at 18:19
Knowing that one wrong move can send you back to the start creates a lot of tension in a game. Having said that, I have limited gaming time these days so its just impractial for me not to quick save on a regular basis.
Tannar on 21/2/2009 at 20:56
I very rarely use quicksave. I do a normal save fairly regularly in case the engine freaks out. I always save before particularly risky maneuvers and after any long and tedious sequences that I might not want to have to go through again if I am forced to reload later.
DrK on 21/2/2009 at 23:24
I often quicksave (and never save). Generally every 5 minutes or so. When I break into a new house or an unlocked room, after a conversation... Any kind of special event or situation where I would eventually die or be in trouble.
But I try to quickload only when I'm dead, if I'm spotted I try to handle it the best I can. So quicksave is only for safety.
Petike the Taffer on 22/2/2009 at 15:53
Quote Posted by BrokenArts
Nope, hard save for me, always.
"Tis' the same for me..." ;)
