GMDX Dev on 11/12/2015 at 04:45
Must. Respect. Opinions...
Quote Posted by froghawk
The bottom line is, if you don't like objective markers and such, most modern games let you turn them off. I always do. So what's the big deal?
It doesn't work that way. Games used to be designed around the use of no objective markers through intuition, subtle hints, journals, auto-fill maps and such.
Turning off objective markers in a lot of modern games simply doesn't work because the games aren't designed to this old standard.
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And despite the fact that I generally turn them off, I no longer have the gaming time as an adult that allows me to be lost in a level for hours with no idea where I'm going, so I don't know that 'handholding' designs are bad if you have a life and a job and friends and other hobbies and stuff.
Don't pull the "I have a life" card.
(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orienteering)
People consider it a fun activity, and if designed well I agree.
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I've never played an Assassin's Creed game, but if you're looking to use your brain why not play an RTS or something?
RTS is a different form of skill/brain use. A game like Assassin's Creed features combat, so said combat should engage the player, otherwise it is "non-gameplay", an unrewarding time sink, and I just don't see its value.
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To me it's all kind of a moot point, because for the most part gaming as a medium has failed to reach the same artistic level as film, music or literature (with a few exceptions of course), so I'm not interested in which past era is better - I'm interested in how gaming as a whole is going to evolve and transcend a lot of its nonsense.
I think Looking Glass proved to the snobs paying attention that gaming is the most advanced form of art. Games incorporates a wide array of other forms of art, then makes it all interactive. It has the most depth and the most to give of them all as it stands. Sure, gaming is still in its infancy, but it has already superseded film and such by far.
PigLick on 11/12/2015 at 10:23
Orienteering is fucking awesome, and I actually used to be a young teen who achieved numerous awards cos I was a competitive orienteer person. The thing is you have to be fit, and well yeh. Not so much these days. Thats why I love games like Dayz because essentially thats what you are doing, with zombies and combat thrown in.
Manwe on 11/12/2015 at 12:08
Quote Posted by faetal
You seem to have set up a thread just to be all didactic and condescending. The title is misleading since it is phrased as a question.
He's not the OP... Although I can see why you would think that considering his behavior. I don't think the OP's posted once in the thread or even read any of the answers.
@GMDX Dev Too much elitism is a bit annoying. I used to be like that a few years ago, then I grew older and realized that some of the conveniences of modern gaming are not that bad. For example if you take stealth. Compare the original Tenchu to the recent Splinter Blacklist. They have pretty much the same amount of depth but one is a joy to play, its AI is the most advanced in the genre, its action is fluid and it let's you do complex moves easily, while the other is a physical and mental torture to play, having to do finger gymnastics to be able to accomplish even the simplest task (such as turning your character left or right), as well as being an assault on your senses with its horrendous visuals. And the AI is bare-bones, not to say inexistent.
Also look at multi-player. You can't deny that with the development of broadband, multi-player hasn't improved. We've never had that many quality co-op games and it has even spawned whole new genres. We now have asymmetric competitive multi-player (Evolve), co-op competitive games (Left4Dead), multi-player integrated seamlessly into single-player (Dark Souls, MGS5), open-world multi-player games with GTA Online (a dream come true for anyone who grew up playing Multi-Theft Auto in all its shittiness), multi-player crafting and building games (Minecraft and its clones), and we also have asymmetric co-op games with things like Clandestine. And that's without mentioning the recent wave of wacky multiplayer party games that are flooding the PC market. Or what Star Citizen is doing with its co-op, multi-crew, team-deathmatch, mmo-everything in space thingy.
I mean none of that shit's of any interest to me because I have no gamer friends, but I respect the fact that other people might like it.
Of course like I said it's not all rosy, we also have the negatives that come with wide broadband access, like forced online connectivity, bloated social features, and maybe a tendency to favour multi-player games over single-player ones. Although I'm not sure about the last one. Someone predicted the death of single-player games a few years ago and we've never had that many quality single-player campaigns.
faetal on 11/12/2015 at 12:50
Ah, I should of course have checked the OP, but it was a very forceful threadjack.
It's highly obnoxious - leaving zero room for the notion that maybe you aren't correct. Being single-minded does not mean you are definitely right, it can as easily just make you biased, which I think is the case here. GMDX's entire contribution here seems to have been "telling it like it is" which is a giant assumption that everyone who disagrees is seeing "it" incorrectly. So yeah, expect to take some flak for that. This is TTLG, we're a time-worn, smart and discerning bunch of mofos.
icemann on 11/12/2015 at 12:51
And that much of what we have today is an evolution of what was before.
For the stuff we weren't having anymore, we have Kickstarter. Which fixed that side of things.
heywood on 11/12/2015 at 12:53
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And despite the fact that I generally turn them off, I no longer have the gaming time as an adult that allows me to be lost in a level for hours with no idea where I'm going, so I don't know that 'handholding' designs are bad if you have a life and a job and friends and other hobbies and stuff.
I play games the same way I always did, just fewer of them.
I still would rather figure things out for myself and spend the time getting immersed. And I'd rather just skip a game if I don't have time to play it the way I want. To me, rushing through games is like reading the Cliff notes instead of the book.
Quote Posted by icemann
And that much of what we have today is an evolution of what was before.
For the stuff we weren't having anymore, we have Kickstarter. Which fixed that side of things.
Not really. Kickstarter is never going to produce a modern equivalent of System Shock, Thief, Deus Ex, Half-Life, etc. They were AAA titles for their time. They were new games that spawned large franchises. They were made by the best people in the business. And they were innovative and ambitious.
The only way we're going to see games like that again is if somebody with very deep pockets is willing to take a big risk on an entirely new game from a (probably) young studio with vision and ambition.
bangersnmash on 11/12/2015 at 13:13
Quote Posted by Manwe
He's not the OP... Although I can see why you would think that considering his behavior. I don't think the OP's posted once in the thread or even read any of the answers.
No, I read about 10 or so posts but then the bickering got too tiresome to bother with. Still I did find some replies interesting. Thanks to everyone!
Chimpy Chompy on 11/12/2015 at 13:32
It does feel like there's less variety and innovation these days. More rounds of Assassin's Creed and Military shooters. Open world crafting seems a recurring trend as well. The indies have some good ideas, but also an awful lot of platform games.
BUT I may be a victim of massive nostalgia-vision; the 90s were my teenage years.
GMDX Dev on 11/12/2015 at 13:35
Quote Posted by Manwe
Also look at multi-player. You can't deny that with the development of broadband, multi-player hasn't improved.
One point to the modern era. Got any more (aside from your Tenchu bashing which while
somewhat valid I'm going to ignore lest we begin arguing about that next)?
There has been another given in that games are generally more polished, but they are polished turds.
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It's highly obnoxious - leaving zero room for the notion that maybe you aren't correct.
I would leave room...If this were
truly subjective material. I laid down the facts on page one.
Quote Posted by "chimpy chompy"
It does feel like there's less variety and innovation these days
Feel? It isn't even open for debate. Genres have been killed off or are barely supported by niche communities.
Elitist? Obnoxious? Juvenile? I may be aggressively intruding but I haven't made any personal attacks.
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This is TTLG, we're a time-worn, smart and discerning bunch of mofos.
I know, but you have this particular subject figured all wrong, at least those choosing to post in this thread anyhow.
Icemann: "Evolution of what came before" is Bioshock your ideal evolution of System Shock 2? It's a simplified clone of it for goodness sake. The evolution there is in the engine, which was EPIC's.
3rd point to modern era: engine evolution. But they are meaningless without being put to good use through good game design.
I'll address this some more actually:
Quote Posted by Manwe
Compare the original Tenchu to the recent Splinter Blacklist.
Despite Tenchu's flaws SC:B is not a worthy contender. Too many non-game elements. And my god Tenchu's soundtrack has some of the finest pieces in gaming.
Ev0luti0n_ on 11/12/2015 at 14:49
Quote Posted by 242
No. As you suspected quite correctly, you simply got older.
The same, only in Ukraine.
Again, same as me, but I found a solution - switched to consoles for gaming. Simply cheaper and more convenient.
I found that getting older, plus not having money for a decent computer, made me not be able to play games like i was when i was a teen. And yes, I long for those days Too! We tend to think that back in the day that it was the shit and not so much today but it's Just not true.
And the jump to consoles is awesome to keep up with the gaming without hassle....
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