Lord Dalar on 22/8/2009 at 05:50
the answer is "Yes", but I want it as a bugged "Last moment Feature" so that there will be guaranteed it is there and will be fixed, but the team didn't had the time before coming out because they were too focused on the single player campaign to make it work at maximium efficiency.
I know it's sad to hope something comes out buggedand half finished, but that's what we are used to pay for... Games with great potential, that one can really appreciate after a time of patching fixing end re-editing.
I f one has money one should buy the collector edition of such games with gadgets and features, just to make a rough playthrough, just to get around the anxiety of knowing the plot, and then the economic "Gold All-included latest Version patch" to really appreciate the whole finished game...
Not every one has the money to this, at least here in Italy, but I don't think games cost much less somewhere else...
For a good Thief game I could think to spend some money...a "GOOD" thief game...
(sorry for the OT, but I came late to this section of forum and never expressede anything about perplexities about this "thi4f"...
Taffer36 on 25/8/2009 at 07:52
I don't think it'd be a problem. Multiplayer plays drastically different from singleplayer in pretty much any game anyways so I don't think a bit of contrast between SP and MP will be much of a problem.
MP could do with being more fast-paced than SP. A quick, no respawn, round-by-round gametype would work really well. It could basically be a one-flag CTF mode, where the thieves team is given five minutes to steal the object.
I think it'd be important to make the thieves slower than the guards, so that a thief can't just rush away from alerted guards as a tactic. It would encourage stealth quite a bit without technically forcing it.
Jarvis on 26/8/2009 at 01:15
On the contrary, you very much want thieves to be able to escape guards. Again, Thievery UT already ran this experiment. I hope if EM decides to go with a multiplayer function they at least consult with Black Cat games.
Guards quickly learn all the shadows and hiding spots. This doesn't make stealth impossible, or even difficult. But it does mean that you *will* be spotted from time to time no matter how patient or stealthy you are.
You encourage stealth by making guards extremely difficult to take down. Make stealth and evasion by far the easiest means of survival.
jtr7 on 26/8/2009 at 01:23
Guards thinking like thieves, and players who've played as thieves before, kinda just makes it all a difference in gear and HP, doesn't it?
Taffer36 on 26/8/2009 at 04:01
Quote Posted by Jarvis
On the contrary, you very much want thieves to be able to escape guards. Again, Thievery UT already ran this experiment. I hope if EM decides to go with a multiplayer function they at least consult with Black Cat games.
Guards quickly learn all the shadows and hiding spots. This doesn't make stealth impossible, or even difficult. But it does mean that you *will* be spotted from time to time no matter how patient or stealthy you are.
You encourage stealth by making guards extremely difficult to take down. Make stealth and evasion by far the easiest means of survival.
If thieves are quicker than guards, though, couldn't they just grab the trinket and outrun the guards?
Hell, I've never played Thievery. But I would assume that a great tactic would be to just rush into the building and run around, since you are quicker than the guards anyways. You could argue that guards could group together to corner you, but then you're taking up the attention of more than one guard. Mission accomplished right?
If the guards are quicker than the thieves, then this immediately kills the "tactic" of rushing. Other cool gameplay features might be necessary, though, such as being able to hand off "da loot" or perhaps being able to toss it a short distance to teammates so that proper coordination can still win out even if thieves are spotted.
Queue on 26/8/2009 at 05:12
Why on earth would one want multi-player in a game of individualism and stealth--doesn't hearing the other person(s) you're playing with making farty noises and babbling inanely on the other end through the tinny speakers pull one of the immersive nature of playing Thief?
jtr7 on 26/8/2009 at 05:26
A playground for a game of cops and robbers. Fun, but not Thief at all, just the gear.
Taffer36 on 28/8/2009 at 18:54
Quote Posted by Queue
Why on earth would one want multi-player in a game of individualism and stealth--doesn't hearing the other person(s) you're playing with making farty noises and babbling inanely on the other end through the tinny speakers pull one of the immersive nature of playing Thief?
No, because I can play singleplayer for that experience.
This is true of ANY game with a multiplayer and a singleplayer component. I always play the singleplayer portion of Call of Duty alone, because I enjoy the scripted storyline and roller coaster ride that the campaign is. AFTER THAT, I hop into some no holds barred multiplayer.
jtr7 on 29/8/2009 at 01:07
I'll ask again... Isn't multiplayer just using the maps and gear to essentially do roughly the same things as in any multiplayer game within a closed map? Specialty tools/weapons and terrain, but that's it?
Jarvis on 29/8/2009 at 01:45
Quote Posted by jtr7
Guards thinking like thieves, and players who've played as thieves before, kinda just makes it all a difference in gear and HP, doesn't it?
Not at all. That is a factor of course, but in Thievery is was way more important to understand the nature of your specific opponent than it was to understand his gear load out.
For instance: Guards will camp loot. I'm fine with this. This is the nature of the game(though in a well designed stage the guards will be spread pretty thin across several objectives). It does provide some interesting challenges for the thief. Here are the options:
A: Assault. Of course it happens. Sometimes it works, but often the guard calls for help or just comes out and destroys the thief outright. After all, guards will be powerhouses next to thieves. Obviously, aggressive guards are more dangerous to try this on.
B: Distract. This can be done with a team mate or alone. It could be intentionally revealing yourself and causing a chase. Or maybe you cause a noise, or blackjack a guard nearby. Or maybe you intentionally fail a blackjack attempt on a guard nearby to draw out your camper to "help his buddy". Obviously, the defensive guard makes this approach more difficult and dangerous.
C: Patience. Human decision making is so much more complex than AI, and that's why multiplayer is so much fun. You know every second you wait outside that guy's camp he's worried that he might be wasting his time. He's worried that the thieves might be mounting an team assault on his measily defenses at any second. He's strung out trying to listen for the slightest footsteps, or the quaff of an invis potion. You can only stretch a person's patience so far before they take *some* kind of action that can be exploited to your ends. Often, that includes when they take no action.
D: Ghost it. Not always possible, and often very difficult. But it is one of the most satisfying gaming experiences you'll ever have. Ghosting single player games is a matter of timing and patience. Multiplayer ghosting is that, on TOP of a deep understanding of human awareness, search patterns, and complacency.
Remember, the above experiences and perspectives are born out of real experiences from a Thief based multiplayer game that worked, and worked very well. Again, the chief "failing" of Thievery was that it was considered too slow and difficult to learn for mainstream gamers. People who tried to rush in and "assault" with out some measure of stealth generally died quickly and stopped playing. I'm not kidding when I say it was right up the alley of at least 70% of the people here. Why did it not become more successful amongst this community? Preconceived notions just like the ones displayed in this thread.
Thievery had its dirty laundry, sure. All games do. But don't go trying to reinvent the wheel here guys. Or worse yet, don't ignore the wheel all together. Multiplayer Thief is the thinking man's game, in many ways even more so than singleplayer Thief.
