Wormrat on 17/11/2009 at 20:31
I've found it useful in rare occasions. It's good for looking around corners when you're in a very bright, tiled area. I think I've only used it in FMs, though--the OMs are too easy to make it worth the trouble.
There's also the fact that spamming quicksave/load is easier. The ideal situation for a scouting orb would be an area where the guards are only visible if you're already out in the light/open. In practice, it's easier to just guess when the guards aren't present and quickload if you're wrong than actually use the orb from distant cover.
The Shroud on 17/11/2009 at 20:57
I think a better alternative to the scouting orb would have been a small hand-mirror the player could have held around corners and such (even if the mirror just acted as another camera, like scouting orbs did). As Beleg said, it's too tempting to want to recollect the scouting orbs after throwing them. Not to mention the fact that if I were a guard patrolling down some well-lit hall and I noticed one of those peculiar devices rotating around on its own, I'd grow a little suspicious. I'd probably pick it up thinking, "what the hell is this thing?"
Actually, that could be rather funny. Imagine a distorted, concave closeup of a guard's face with his brows furrowed and eyes wide in bafflement as he examines the orb you're spying through. :D
Chade on 17/11/2009 at 21:53
The trouble with thief is that, the better you are, the less equipment you are supposed to use. Therefore, it's hard to introduce equipment to fans in the second game of the series.
The scouting orb strikes me as a great idea in theory. Knowing what guards do is absolutely central to thief gameplay. Thief already gives garrett a way of telling what out-of-sight guards are doing by emphasising sound, but this is a very imprecise tool. The scouting orb provides much more detailed information. EDIT: Also, I think it's a good thing that the player should plan to pick them up after they have been used ... it makes the game slightly more interesting.
The scouting orb seems like it should be a tool that fits thief perfectly. I'd be interested to see how usefull it was for people who aren't very good at sneaking, and maybe hadn't gotten so good at using their ears yet.
If it turns out that the scouting orb isn't very usefull for anyone, there are a number of ways to make it more powerfull. It could be a flat disc, capable of sliding under doors. The camera could occupy a small portion of the players screen and rotate automatically, allowing the player to move around while using it.
KoHaN69 on 17/11/2009 at 22:15
I agree that there should be a method of looking through some doors.
Keyhole is one possibility (hitman did it?) but under the door is another.
Here's an example from the upcoming Ubisoft Montreal game Splinter Cell Conviction:
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gZcWdyJUZw#t=2m8s)
a piece of a broken mirror is used to look under the door.
Quote Posted by Herr_Garrett
Oh, and it stops your fall.
How so?
bikerdude on 17/11/2009 at 22:18
Quote Posted by Herr_Garrett
Oh, and it stops your fall.
hmm a 'cheat' of sorts..?
The Shroud on 17/11/2009 at 22:47
Quote Posted by Chade
The trouble with thief is that, the better you are, the less equipment you are supposed to use. Therefore, it's hard to introduce equipment to fans in the second game of the series.
Good point.
Quote Posted by Chade
The scouting orb strikes me as a great idea in theory. Knowing what guards do is absolutely central to thief gameplay. Thief already gives garrett a way of telling what out-of-sight guards are doing by emphasising sound, but this is a very imprecise tool. The scouting orb provides much more detailed information.
True - although a small mirror would accomplish the same thing and you wouldn't have to worry about retrieving it - unless you left it sitting upright against a wall to see it from a distance.
Quote Posted by Chade
If it turns out that the scouting orb isn't very usefull for anyone, there are a number of ways to make it more powerfull. It could be a flat disc, capable of sliding under doors. The camera could occupy a small portion of the players screen and rotate automatically, allowing the player to move around while using it.
While on the one hand that sounds like a pretty neat idea, on the other hand I don't think conceiving of ways to make the scouting orb more powerful is the way to go. Garrett already has so many advantages at his disposal to benefit sneaking that giving him that kind of technology seems a bit overkill to me.
jtr7 on 17/11/2009 at 23:16
Dropping it down a hole or throwing it around a corner no hand mirror could give the angle on are good uses (when one has not memorized the terrain and AI placement). The Mechanists used one in their reconnaissance of Beck o' the Wills.
Okay. Here's how a Scouting Orb stops a fall to the death:
I went in DromEd and placed Garrett atop Angelwatch Tower, because I wasn't getting the results I wanted from the Bell Tower at the beginning. I wanted to see if I could watch myself fall from the Scouting Orb, which meant it had to activate a second before I landed. I wanted to know If I could see Garrett fall over. Just messing about.
So. I chucked the Scouting Orb forward, out beyond the broader dimensions of the lowest storey, so it would hit the street at the very bottom. I jumped off, the Scouting Orb activated and deactivated (without my command), and I was standing on the ground, way before I would've landed with the full fall of about 4-seconds. It worked this way every time. Sometimes I would teleport to the upper ledge with the entrance into the vents, but every single time, if the Orb hit first, it would activate/deactivate and I'd be teleported directly below, to the first level straight down, from where I was when it hit. A new exploit with rare use. Life of the Party doesn't start with a Scouting Orb. It's a bit different than using the Frogbeast Egg Jumping technique, but the end result of a safe landing from a fatally distant fall is the same, and the Orb is recoverable. Shipping... and Receiving would be the one place to try it without DromEd.
Anyway, the devs did have the idea of a clockwork spy rat instead of the Orb, and the Mechanists were going to have a Clockwork Spy Camera. The Mech Spy Camera was made, but it doesn't work fully, but it gets a mention in ledgers in Eavesdropping.
Emeloy on 18/11/2009 at 00:42
I think the main problem with the orb is simply, that the game doesn't really have a need for it.
The Guards never suspect you're comming, they can't set traps, they can't change their routes... well to be honest they are quite useless in nearly every way a guard could be. They even wear louder shoes than you do, which is quite an accomplishment in itself.
Combined with a stealthmodus, that works more like invisbility and a lean function, which let's you practically walk around a corner without being seen, just makes scouting ahead a waste of time.
Chade on 18/11/2009 at 00:55
Shoud, I don't have any particular problem with the idea of a small mirror, which would indeed serve much the same purpose as a scouting orb ... but I also don't see it as being any sort of improvement. It sounds strictly less powerfull then the scouting orb, which makes it an odd suggestion in a thread where people are complaining that they never found a use for the scouting orbs.
Emeloy, aren't you speaking from the persepctive of a skillfull thief player? I don't recall that thief ever had a reputation as an easy game ... the easiest difficulty level is labelled (accurately) as "normal".
kamyk on 18/11/2009 at 01:29
I've never had a use for the scouting orbs in FMs or OMs, except as a novelty.
They also seem unrealistic to me. Imagine you were standing or walking somewhere, and suddenly this little metal orb was thrown into your radius of perception. Realistically speaking, I'd think a guard would react to that in some way, and they don't. Of course if they did, it would render the orbs completely useless, but they almost are anyway as it is.
A mission with very few shadows in spots might make them more useful.
