Dragon Age 2 - Way of the Shepard - Fear of the Witcher ?

june gloom on 14/3/2011 at 21:45

what's your point kokes, both are opposite extremes of the same problem

Jason Moyer on 14/3/2011 at 21:49

I'm playing Torment right now and it's fucking great. Fuck you you fucking fuck. :angel:

Also, equipment streamlining? The tattoos are functionally identical to gloves/boots/cloaks in the normal D&D ruleset, even down to class restrictions. IMHO, there really isn't much of a difference between the mechanics of BG1 and PST.

Eldron on 14/3/2011 at 22:18

Quote Posted by Jason Moyer

PST had limited amount of armors and weapons for the very varied characters very much due of the fact that they were very unique graphically compared to a BG character.

But it didn't make it any worse.

Ostriig on 15/3/2011 at 00:04

Quote Posted by Sulphur

At least there's still the poorly animated sex.

I went to the brothel in Kirkwall and they removed the "Surprise me" option. :(

On a more serious note, I hadn't commented in my previous post about the copy-paste dungeons phenomenon because I hadn't gotten to see enough of it. But now I believe I have, and I'm really stunned. Once again I foolishly believed that maybe people were engaging in a little poetic license about "copy-paste" dungeons, some hyperbole. But wow, it was almost entirely literal, or like Phatose said, it's the same fucking map over and over! There's generic areas that have tons of quests taking you back through them time and again, and then there's generic dungeons that serve as extensions to said areas and use slightly different paths through themselves depending on the quests you have active. This is the sort of gimmick that we put up with in MMO games that are supposed to keep you grinding for hundreds of hours, and here are Bioware putting it into a 30-40 hours' single-player, AAA-value, supposedly top-of-the-line RPG.

Quote Posted by Avalon

They do a fairly okay job of giving you an illusion of choice - but in the end, all that really changes are a couple lines of dialogue.

At this point I'd even settle for an illusion, as long as I get to indulge in it for more than the two lines of dialogue coming after it. Seriously, I've now put in ten hours, just wanna wrap up a couple of grind quests before I move on to the Expedition, and I have not felt like I was in control of pretty much anything aside from choosing minor outcomes to complete quests - i.e. on the spot choices with instant consequences and no impact beyond that. I think the biggest "choice" I've made so far was to ignore Isabela's little intro and leave her in the bloody bar.

About your second post, sorry, I didn't read it. This game offers me little enough for my money as it is, I don't want the spoilers.

Anyway children, alongside my disgruntled durr I also bring you some lovely scandal. Now, we all know how the internet and the grain of salt work together, but given how I've seen similarly dubious rumours of BioWare/EA blaming the Metacritic user ratings on 4chan I only think it's fair to represent the flipside of that argument. Found this little post linked on the official forums which accuses a BioWare employee of popping in to bump the scores a bit. I was gonna make a joke here, but I dunno, if it's true it really is poor form. On the off-chance of it being an isolated case, I can imagine it might be hard to see the thing you've worked on so long get trashed like that, but still, poor form. The vastly more likely scenario, company directive... well, pfeh. You spend all that money buying professional reviews, why not make a little more use of the assets already on your permanent payrole, eh?

Quote:

(http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/g3td7/dragon_age_2_conspiracy_highest_rated_metacritic/) Dragon Age 2 Conspiracy - Highest rated Metacritic review by Bioware employee (with zero disclosure)
Originally Posted by GatoFiasco (reddit)

First post ever, but I think you'll find this interesting...

Checked out Metacritic for Dragon Age 2 reviews (after hearing about all the changes from Origins, was a bit skeptical). After seeing it gets a generally favorable score, I check out the user reviews, since they usually offer a more accurate portrayal of how a game actually plays.

Right off the bat, I notice there's something...off with the top user review (by 'Avanost'). It reads almost like a press release. I do not trust it:

"The immersion and combat of this game are unmatched! A truly moving and fun epic. Anything negative you'll see about this game is an overreaction of personal preference. For what it is, it is flawlessly executed and endlessly entertaining" (emphasis added).

Sketchy to say the least.

So I check Avanost's Metacritic profile ((http://www.metacritic.com/user/Avanost) http://www.metacritic.com/user/Avanost - deleted), and, whaddya know, he's only ever written one review. On Dragon Age II.

So I Google ‘Avanost', because I'm starting to not trust this motherfucker. And a Plurk (WTF is Plurk) profile shows up ((http://www.plurk.com/avanost) http://www.plurk.com/avanost), revealing a name.

So I Google the name, all the while cautioning myself that this could be a completely different Avanost, and not to jump to conclusions, and WHAT THE FUCK HE'S AN ENGINEER AT BIOWARE. ((http://linkedin.com/in/christopherhoban) Linkedin profile)

I have to laugh, because this really borders on farce.

Despite reeking of impropriety (and the fact there has to be a rule against doing this in the Bioware employee handbook), ole Avanost has no problem writing a review with zero disclosure of his industry ties, as long as you pick up a copy of the “flawless” Dragon Age 2 at your nearest retailer.

(Disclosure: Sensationalist title to garner interest.)

EDIT 1: This is a matter of ethics and integrity. A consumer requires objective information in order to make an informed decision about purchasing a product. If the line between editorial article and product review is skewed, then the consumer is being deceived at the cost of their eventual trust and loyalty to the company responsible. This is why disclosure of industry ties is necessary to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

EDIT 2: For those of you frothing at the mouth in the comments about how anyone who doesn't like Dragon Age 2 is retarded (including me), take a deep breath and relax: I like the game. I was checking out the reviews because I wanted to read what other people thought of it (I've since borrowed it from a friend; piracy at its finest). That does not mean I wanted to read reviews written by Bioware employees cloaked as genuine. That is not okay, under any circumstances, for any employee, of any company. (And for those saying it might not be the same guy...yes, I'm sure this is all one big coincidence. He just happens to respond to, and simultaneously dismiss, the most prevalent criticisms of Dragon Age 2 in one fell swoop.)

EDIT 3: So they're going into damage control mode, and the review has been deleted. ((http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:e-vY2rdMfmQJ:www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/dragon-age-ii+metacritic+dragon+age+2&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com) Cached.) Thanks to SnakeLinkSonic: (http://i.imgur.com/BEZOe.png) a breakdown of the 'investigation'.

EDIT 4: 4chan is currently searching for more shill reviews from EA/Bioware on Metacritic. (TIL this is called (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing) 'astroturfing'.) If anyone else finds any, post away.

EDIT 5: (http://i51.tinypic.com/b4hirk.jpg) And here we go. ((http://www.bioware.ru/2011/03/10/dragon_age_2_vote_on_metacritic.html) Original.)

EDIT 6: Story picked up by (http://www.capsulecomputers.com.au/2011/03/bioware-caught-red-handed/) CapsuleComputers. And (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23bioware) Twitter. Thanks to everyone sending me links, tough to keep up.

EDITED BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO USE REDDIT.

Phatose on 15/3/2011 at 00:28

That's really fucking sad. Especially because Bioware is quite capable of making actually good games and not needing any of that shit.

Anyway, just beat it.
What a colossal clusterfuck. Stand up for the mages, then Anders decides he's going to blow up the fucking church. Way to go dickhead. Stabbed him. And psycho bitch decides to kill the entire circle, y'know, for just being there.

I say no to that shit, run off to protect the innocent circle from slaughter. Only I get there, and every last fucking one is a bloodmage. The first enchanter decides he wants to be a Tzimetzie and turn into a giant fleshbeast. Which then ignores the army of templars and attacks me.

Despite this, not one of my companions has anything to say. I'm boning the blood mage, and she's a blood mage anyway, so she ain't saying nothing. But the Guard captain and Varric? Varric, who has a quip for everything, doesn't call bullshit? WTF, Kirkwall is a nation of the fucking oblivious.

Not one person in the entire fucking country says "Well, way to go protecting those bloodmages. Well, actually, not protecting them, rather saying you're going to protect them and then slaughtering every last one of them. Well, except the one you're fucking. And killing most of the templars in the city. And half your own party." This is much less 'Champion of Kirkwall' and more "Lord Death of Murder Mountain"

Renzatic on 15/3/2011 at 01:34

I haven't played it yet, so I don't know why I'm commenting here. Hell, I could end up loving the game for all I know. But from the sound of things, it seems like DA2 was a pointlessly hurried, slapped together half assed game, rushed to the shelves to make a quick buck. Everything I've seen, everything I've heard, points towards Bioware doing the least amount of work to get a game out as quickly as possible.

My question is...why? They didn't need to change the DA formula. It sold at least as well as Mass Effect 2, did it not? If it sold like shit, I'd understand why they'd want to bring the gameplay in line with a more popular title. But it didn't. People loved it. But they wanted to mix and match, I guess. And now we've got this mess of a thing that isn't even half as good as the two games its based upon.

Nothing about DA2, from the changes, to the obvious rush job, to the game itself, makes a damn bit of sense.

...I'm now worried about how Mass Effect 3 is gonna turn out.

Angel Dust on 15/3/2011 at 02:06

Quote Posted by Ostriig

On a more serious note, I hadn't commented in my previous post about the copy-paste dungeons phenomenon because I hadn't gotten to see enough of it. But now I believe I have, and I'm really stunned. Once again I foolishly believed that maybe people were engaging in a little poetic license about "copy-paste" dungeons, some hyperbole. But wow, it was almost entirely literal, or like Phatose said, it's the same fucking map over and over! There's generic areas that have tons of quests taking you back through them time and again, and then there's generic dungeons that serve as extensions to said areas and use slightly different paths through themselves depending on the quests you have active. This is the sort of gimmick that we put up with in MMO games that are supposed to keep you grinding for hundreds of hours, and here are Bioware putting it into a 30-40 hours' single-player, AAA-value, supposedly top-of-the-line RPG.

What I don't get is that one of the biggest issues people had with Mass Effect was the copy-paste space stations, planet bases etc and they took this on board for the sequel making all the mini-quests areas unique. Now it seems (haven't actually played DA2 and I'm now highly unlikely to) like they've forgotten all about that. I'm guessing the quick development cycle is mostly to blame but it also seems like they don't really give a shit either.

DDL on 15/3/2011 at 12:18

The weird thing about the comparison between ME1 and ME2 missions in that context is that personally I still feel that the first game was closer to the mark: ME2s missions are all unique, and much more tightly scripted (follow the trail of chest-high walls), and as a consequence are far less painful and generally more enjoyable to play through, but they make the entire universe feel much much smaller, and by-and-large, entirely designed around you.

ME1 had you driving around an almost totally deserted alien world for ages each time, occasionally finding some minerals or a crashed probe or something before you reached the inevitable C&P base.
While this was certainly frustrating at the time, it really hit home the sense of hugeness the universe should have, the feeling of being one tiny space-ship out in the middle of fucking nothing. Even after detecting a signal indicating you're not alone around a particular random planet, you still had to drive through a good few minutes of fucking nothing. Plus the random other stuff you'd find would make that universe seem living and breathing: somewhere out there there's a salarian exploration party that would be grateful for the information that you stumbled upon the corpse of one of their number while exploring thetis alpha (or whatever). The fact that you'd encounter these essentially by chance, miles off-course, rather than having them placed neatly between the next few chest-high walls, added to the effect.

That sense of isolation, of awe at a huge uncaring universe full of empty space (and maybe a couple of pirates which I killed)...well, that stuck with me much longer than ME2s compact, refined missions.

ME2 was probably more fun, sure. But ME1 was more memorable. For me.

Though I will remember the giant robot skeleton with :tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk: for as long as I live.

Anyway, back to DA2...in koki's imagelink, does the icon next to the convos turn into a sort of trollface when you highlight douchebag options? Or is it always "smily lolz" mask?

Sulphur on 15/3/2011 at 17:02

The only problem with ME1's expeditions were that they all required this thing called a 'Mako'. And while the universe may indeed be vast and cold and uncaring, those planets in ME1 weren't quite what you'd call vast. They were small rectangular environments of the same repeated basic types that boxed you in and were mostly non-descript, even the ones with 'life' apparent, and it was a complete failure of imagination/implementation in most respects. (Funny how multiple arguments tend to resolve to the same basic point, à la the Prey discussion in the other thread.)

I see why ME2 went the way it did - if ME2 lies at the extreme end of the spectrum where free reign and untethered exploration is savagely axed, at the other end of the spectrum there lies only one game: Elite.

It's still disappointing that ME2 chose to narrow the scope to a semi-linear sci-fi action adventure, even though it's a pretty nicely crafted game all in all.

Regarding DA2: the icon for glib remarks is always a mask, and those are always the middle or 'neutral' option anyway. Those varied dialogue options from DA:O are completely gone, and that hurts quite a damn bit.

june gloom on 15/3/2011 at 20:10

If ME2's missions feel smaller and more centered around the player, that's because they're supposed to be. Half the missions you're doing are either picking up a party member or helping them get over their fucking baggage. The game is much more episodic in nature, and the missions reflect this.

There's no pleasing some people I guess.