DDL on 15/3/2011 at 22:55
Quote Posted by dethtoll
There's no pleasing some people I guess.
:p
Perhaps "missions" was the wrong term, since the actual plot missions in ME1 were pretty tightly scripted too. The random sidequests, on the other hand...that's more what I'm talking about.
The sidequests in ME2 are very similar in play to the main story/companion missions : a focussed area full o' cover for shepard to do his/her thang in. Invisible walls or actual walls everywhere else.
The sidequests in ME1, less so. Sure, they were all fucking similar, but it gave one a sense of space actually containing "space", rather than space being made of "mission areas for shepard". Ok yes, the space was a square mile of random planet and DON'T YOU DARE TRY MOVING OUTSIDE IT, but it was still enough to convey a sense of space, pretty much BECAUSE it was so fucking empty.
And note I did say ME2 was more
fun. It's just ME1 was more evocative (IMHO, obviously). Sometimes you have to endure a bit of frustration and pain to actually get a meaningful experience.
Actually that sounds horribly pretentious. But things like "spending a decent percentage of the entire gametime of thief simply sitting motionless behind a pillar, waiting for a window of movement to occur" could easily be described as tedious and "bad game design", but it's far far more memorable an experience than, say "garret goes all ninja on some guards, wins".
Also, Sulphur: yeah, fuck the MAKO.
(I did manage to flip the fucker once or twice tho...it slowly rotates back to upright, for no obvious reason)
Actually tho: I still prefer the MAKO to the firewalker hover tank. The hovertank was a bit silly though. And necessitated JUMPY LEVELS just to justify it.
Ostriig on 16/3/2011 at 00:36
Ok, quick question for those that are farther along in the game than me: I've wrapped up my preparations for getting on with the Expedition but every time I talk to Bertrand either he tells me to "finish up my affairs in Kirkwall" or Varric suggests I "should drop by home" and I just don't get an option to tell them that I'm ready. I've recruited all companions except Isabela, but I understand that's fine. I do have a bunch of secondary quests left over in my journal though, am I
obligated to finish all that crap before I can move on? Or is there something specific waiting for me home that I just haven't noticed?
Quote Posted by Renzatic
My question is...why? They didn't need to change the DA formula.
That's really what gets me too, I was under the impression that Origins sold very, very well. VGChartz puts it at over 2 million units during the first ten weeks
just on consoles. Unfortunately they don't have figures for the PC, but I can't imagine the overall sales didn't push 3 million across all three platforms - it's not Call of Duty but anything short of calling this a success would be mind-blowing. We also know that EA brought in over a million US cocos from DLC alone. Nonetheless, I do believe Mass Effect 1 had higher sales, VGChartz has it at well over 2 million units on the 360 alone. Would be curious to see some more comprehensive figures, but I don't have any links at this point.
So, to my mind there's two possibilities for what caused the design shift - either an attempt to maximise profits even to the point of risking the IP's design and part of the existing market, driven by either EA or BioWare themselves, or both; or, another possibility which, while I find slightly less likely, would worry me a lot more - some people at BioWare genuinely thought that all these changes would be a good vision for the future path of RPGs.
Quote Posted by Angel Dust
I'm guessing the quick development cycle is mostly to blame but it also seems like they don't really give a shit either.
The dev cycle was decidedly short but I think there's more to it than that. I've seen some people over at the official forums pointing the finger at EA, and while I'm sure that they have the major fault in that respect, I think that the shoddy way this title turned out also has to do with some horrid prioritising over at BioWare. They didn't go into this not knowing when the ship date was coming up, they should've planned for it, and what I mean by that is that they should've stuck with the core Origins platform with minor developments in that regard and then spend the rest of time developing content. But I guess they just figured that the new combat dynamic, the redesigned skill trees, interfaces, etc. were all more important than stuff like, I don't know, party conversations or branching story arcs and other insignificant crap like that. Or, hell,
maps. I mean, who would've wanted that sort of shit in a Dragon Age sequel, right?
I'm all for pushing the envelope and developing new systems and concepts in sequels, but given the development time they had available I think they should've just focused on producing content. And then maybe I could've occasionally stopped for roadside gossip. Or to slap
Morrigan whomever the fuck I feel like, assuming the scenario where BioWare eventually release a toolset.
Since I've been spouting a lot of vitriol I think I should also give some props where they're due - I feel like the level designers have done a better job with
some of the open spaces this time around, from a sort of architectural/aesthetic sort of way. I'm not sure if I'm expressing this right, it's not artistic style per se, but rather the economy of the spaces. To give an example, compare the Brecillian Forest or the multiple Generic Out-of-Town Random Encounter areas in Origins with the Wounded Coast or the single Generic Out-Of-Town Random Encounter areas in Dragon Age 2 - the Origins environments were intensely dull, whereas the new ones have something going for them even though they are functionally just as limited as the old ones. Where Origins levels had just canyons guiding you through, or generic trees and hills limiting the surroundings, Dragon Age 2 gives you panoramas of jagged cliffs jutting out of the sea, or a ruined keep with a campfire glow just visible in the ravine below. There's occasionally this inspired asymmetry of boundaries, wall on one side and chasm on the other, that still keeps players glued to a simple, linear path, but also gives the possibility for implementing spectacular vistas to convey a feeling of openness, beauty and adventure. The Wounded Coast in particular briefly reminded me of Guild Wars' environmental design, and that's a game that occasionally did things really,
really well in that department, so good job. And I do like the way they've made Kirkwall feel more like a city than Denerim, it's more to-scale and natural, though unfortunately it gets old quite fast as you spend way too much time in it.
Phatose on 16/3/2011 at 03:18
Do you have the 50 gold you need Ostrig?
Ostriig on 16/3/2011 at 03:32
Yeah, turned them in to Bartrand, the maps too. I just keep getting told that we'll be gone for a long time so I should take the opportunity to "drop by home" and wrap up my affairs in Kirkwall. Except I can't find anything new home and I've done all the main quests. I just haven't picked up Isabela and I have a bunch of secondary quests still in my journal, I'm hoping it's not hung on either of those.
Phatose on 16/3/2011 at 04:19
Any letters at home? What's in your main quest section of the journal?
dvrabel on 16/3/2011 at 09:31
Shepherding Wolves turns into a main plot quest. Try that?
Avalon on 16/3/2011 at 14:26
Personally I'd suggest doing all of the side quests, otherwise the game will end very, very quickly. Although I used to skip everything that was optional in games too, so I understand the feeling.
And yeah, from what I recall, Dragon Age Origins was Bioware's best selling game of all time - surpassing the Mass Effect and Star Wars franchises by far. Why they would change the format so drastically when it worked so well is beyond me.
Ostriig on 16/3/2011 at 19:13
Quote Posted by dvrabel
Shepherding Wolves turns into a main plot quest. Try that?
Thanks, maybe that's it, I'll give it a go and report back.
Quote Posted by Avalon
Personally I'd suggest doing all of the side quests, otherwise the game will end very, very quickly. Although I used to skip everything that was optional in games too, so I understand the feeling.
I've put like well over 10 hours into Act I alone and with the difficulty to Casual it definitely wasn't in long, tactical combat. So I've done a good chunk of them, but it's like blaargh, I need a change of scenery.
Quote:
And yeah, from what I recall, Dragon Age Origins was Bioware's best selling game of all time - surpassing the Mass Effect and Star Wars franchises by far. Why they would change the format so drastically when it worked so well is beyond me.
Well, I didn't know that, I thought it just sold well. But you're spot on, had a reach around and it's indeed been (
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/39913/Dragon-Age-bigger-than-Mass-Effect) a greater commercial success than Mass Effect. Makes all these changes even more infuriating.
Sulphur on 16/3/2011 at 20:41
Quote Posted by Ostriig
I've put like well over 10 hours into Act I alone and with the difficulty to Casual it definitely wasn't in long, tactical combat. So I've done a good chunk of them, but it's like blaargh, I need a change of scenery.
Out of curiosity, are you playing it on casual because of all the trash mobs? I found the game way too easy on Normal, so Hard's the only way I can stomach it because then it has some semblance of the standard difficulty in DA:O.
