Duke Nukem Never - TTLG Forums

Harvester on 5/10/2010 at 01:53

Quote Posted by lost_soul

Why must the game use the Unreal engine? Bleh! It should have used the Doom 3 or Rage engine instead. Then it might actually be cross-platform. No, XBOX and Windows does not mean cross-platform in my book.

You should read the Wired article on why DNF failed. Your suggestions are terrible.

It might have theoretically been possible for 3D Realms to have chosen the Doom 3 engine back then instead of the Unreal 2 engine, but remember that when it came out, the Doom 3 engine could hardly handle outdoor terrain at all (and you definitely want outdoor terrain in a Duke game), it took a long time until it got modified to the point where outdoor missions were possible. That would mean even more delays and money spent.

The Rage engine, seriously? That would mean throwing out the whole project and starting all over yet again, while the game is already mostly finished, worst idea ever. And making the game cross platform would have cost millions extra, and 3D Realms was already running out of money.

And of course Xbox/Windows is cross platform (was DNF planned to come out on the Xbox? I've never heard anything about that). What do you want, a frigging Linux version (I ask that because of your posting history)? Do you really think Take Two will be able to make money with that? The Linux market is tiny and Linux geeks are notorious for their unwillingness to pay for software.

I suggest Gearbox hire a lot of people, not implement any more new gameplay or technology features, just finish the maps/weapons/artwork etc. and get the game out within a year while it still looks decent and people still take it a little bit seriously and haven't forgotten about it yet.

gunsmoke on 5/10/2010 at 02:19

^^^^post of the week, Harvester!

lost_soul on 5/10/2010 at 02:40

I suppose I should go ask The Dark Mod crew how many millions of dollars it cost them to provide a Linux version. I should also ask the Urban Terror devs and the Penumbra devs too. It sure is amazing that I can frag Mac or Windows users in Urban Terror, considering the developers must have had to remake every single map and asset from scratch to get it running on another OS and magically remain net-compatible. :eek:

Yes, I want a Linux version of DNF. I also want a Mac version, even though I do not own one (and never will).

ZylonBane on 5/10/2010 at 03:29

Quote Posted by lost_soul

I suppose I should go ask The Dark Mod crew how many millions of dollars it cost them to provide a Linux version.

You are a goddamn idiot.

june gloom on 5/10/2010 at 04:51

Quote Posted by ZylonBane

You are a goddamn idiot.

Vernon on 5/10/2010 at 07:55

I just wish they had used the Dark Engine qq

Dresden on 5/10/2010 at 09:09

Quote Posted by Queue

A muscle bound killing-machine of hyper-testosterone with two dicks? Fuck! Sounds like a dream come true.

I heard that dude had like...thirty god damn dicks.

Harvester on 5/10/2010 at 11:30

Quote Posted by lost_soul

Look, this is the last time I'm going to explain basic game development concepts to you. Next time, do your own research. It shouldn't be that hard, I mean this kind of stuff is way obvious to me and I have only the most basic grasp of what it takes to program and develop a game.

I don't know how much money it cost the Penumbra devs to port their games to Linux, but if you ask them, also ask how much money they made by doing so. I suspect not very much. Even John Carmack just mostly ports his engines to Linux for shits and giggles (Carmack supports Linux and loves programming), I doubt it made them much money.

Which brings me to my next point: Urban Terror is based on the Quake 3 engine and The Dark Mod is based on the Doom 3 engine, both of which were already ported to Linux by the good people at id software. So the developers of that mod didn't have to port the whole engine. Sure, they made some modifications to the engine, but IIRC, those modifications were done in the internal scripting languages of those engines, which means that work, for the most part, does not have to be done again to make a Linux or Mac port.

And even if they did have to program some new stuff for a Linux port (I imagine some netcode has to be redone), the reason it doesn't cost them millions is because those developers did that work for free in their spare time. Actual professional game programmers who work for an actual studio, however, will want to see a paycheck for their hard work.

Next up, do you really think they have to rebuild every map, weapon/enemy model, textures, etc. from scratch to make a Linux port? That's simply not the case, if you make a 1:1 engine port for another platform you can just use the same maps, etc. It's only when you make a port for a platform that's not powerful enough to run the game as it is, that you might have to modify the maps and models a little (maybe lower the polygon count) and the textures (lower resolution), as they have done for many FPS console ports in the past. That still doesn't mean recreating every single thing from scratch though.

Now, your suggestion of using the Rage engine, now that would mean recreating every weapon and enemy model, maps, many textures, etc. from scratch. No sane game developer/publisher would do that to a game that's already so long in development hell and is already 80% finished. Remember, game developers and especially publishers are in the business to make money, not for idealistic reasons.

As I said, this is the last time I'm going to type this much to explain things like this to you. I don't want to be rude, but I suspect most other users understand this stuff already (evidenced by the fact that ZylonBane and dethtoll didn't even bother with explaining why they think your post was stupid) and I feel like I'm taking a lot of my time trying to educate you specifically and not serving the greater good of the forums and its users.

I hope I got all the little facts right, if not feel free to correct me, guys. But I think my overall point is definitely correct.

Sulphur on 5/10/2010 at 11:40

You got it, Harvester. He was being sarcastic over the 'must have had to recreate everything from scratch' bit, but that bullshit notwithstanding, you're on the money. Which is the bloody problem with Linux and developers wanting to support it.

I'm adding a tag to the bottom of this thread, 'cause this is one of the few cases where it's clearly deserved.

Harvester on 5/10/2010 at 12:14

Okay, I missed the sarcasm, thanks for pointing that out, Sulphur.