doctorfrog on 27/8/2008 at 05:53
Chalk me up as another user frustrated less by the graphics than the horrible user interface. I'm no stranger to ASCII graphics, I couldn't play a roguelike any other way (except maybe (
http://homepage3.nifty.com/rfish/index_e.html) Elona... that (
http://homepage3.nifty.com/rfish/image/elona_ss15b.jpg) looks very tempting), but DF is an example of how even brilliant gameplay can be just a little
too hidden behind too-simple graphics and a confusing menu system.
Nethack, as an ASCII example, actually has an elegant, more or less sensible interface hidden away that takes a little liberal use of the question-mark key the first couple go-rounds. ADOM has an impressively deep help file and a complex menu system that makes sense after a few plays... but until then, it is still quite playable. Dwarf Fortress is an even more complex game that needs a thorough help system and menu system as any 4X strategy game.
About a year ago, I felt the need to try out this game before all the hype blew out, to check out the deep gameplay and emergent behavior. All the stories flying around the SA forums, I was dyin' for it. I read some of the early Wiki material, the starting out advice, what to pack, what spot on the map to pick. I gave up after it took me half an hour to figure out how to designate a workshop area, find advice on how big to make that area, and who to assign to build it, and who to assign to work there... or something. All I remember clearly was that I was trying to acomplish a very clear, very simple goal, and the game itself was getting in my way. Nothing is more frustrating than knowing exactly what you want to do, and being hog-tied from being able to do it.
There also aren't enough characters in the alphabet for all the stuff that goes on in the game, so it could use a meaningful graphical overhaul.
I'm sorry, but if I have to have a Wiki open and on hand to play a game, I'm either flying a fighter jet, or the interface needs improvement. Graphic design is part of gameplay, and so is an interface. The gameplay of Dwarf Fortress needs work. Even if it evolves into Gimp-esque palettes, it needs something beyond what it currently is.
Nonetheless, I'm enthusiastically waiting for the game to continue to evolve. I just hope that it does mature before everything that
can be done in its game world is accomplished by the fan community, at which point, the hype dies out and the authors move on.
Koki on 27/8/2008 at 06:51
Meh, I still don't know what do you have against the interface, you even have scrollable lists in most cases!
And if it's too much for you, you can change a great deal in init.txt, including maximum population.
Or just lock the door. Or better, lock the door and set the meeting zone on a tile next to magma pipe.
Ulukai on 27/8/2008 at 09:46
Quote Posted by Koki
Meh, I still don't know what do you have against the interface
Why don't you have a wild stab in the dark
june gloom on 27/8/2008 at 10:02
You just described trying to figure out DF at all.
Gambit on 27/8/2008 at 11:15
Quote Posted by doctorfrog
Graphic design is part of gameplay, and so is an interface.
QFT.
Minion21g on 31/8/2008 at 02:24
Hey, relax Gambit. He's got a point so let him have it. I agree with a good majority of what dr.frog had to say. The game is dying for an visual overhaul. I play DF regularly, and yes, I know what's going on, but often when I try to describe the game to friends and family about how awesome it is to train a polarbear to attack goblins swarms they just laugh at me and question how I know what the heck is going on. So, I hope Toady goes about fixing some of the underlying interface issues soon. Not that he's doing it for profit, but it would get more people interested in the game.
Koki on 31/8/2008 at 08:06
You talk to your family about your games?
june gloom on 31/8/2008 at 08:32
Don't you?
Koki on 31/8/2008 at 10:37
My mother can't tell the difference between a Firefox window and Battlefield 2142.
Fingernail on 31/8/2008 at 10:48
I downloaded this, with a tileset and it's not actually that hard to vaguely grasp what's going on. I haven't read any instructions or walkthroughs, but I figured out how to tell the blighters to mine, build the buildings, get the wood and make some beds. I think the biggest challenge at the moment is to be able to manage multiple tasks at once, at the moment I just focus on getting one or two things done at a time, which often leaves a lot of wasted time and idlers, and I also don't quite trust the game enough to just work when I tell them to get wood I have to make sure they're actually doing it, but that'll probably pass.
I think there was a moment of "oh shit you don't just build stuff you need to tell them to get the materials and build the components and oh shit" but I can see myself getting into it quite a bit. There's still a huge amount of complexity I can't even begin to imagine, at the moment my experience is limited to a sort of demented cross between Battlecruiser and Dungeon Keeper.
