fibanocci on 22/7/2013 at 16:21

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You're pretty much near the cell-limit (32760). Errors like that occur, if you're close to the limit. You could use area brushes to optimize parts of the map.

Recently I made a test-FM with 32752 cells. Portalizing was fine, optimize failed as well.

BTW, I had to remove some cylinders to get to that point.

Sensut on 4/8/2013 at 08:48

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Today I ran into this error too:

http://s8.postimg.org/n1dpaz0h1/optierror1.png

... and after I deleted 3 dodecahedrons (the only 3 dodecahedrons in the level), the optimization was successful with these results:

http://s10.postimg.org/6b2d3autl/optierror2.png

Looks like this is the maximum for this mission, which I find very insufficient. All other increases are in vain if this error comes so soon. My previous old 1.18 mission has just somewhat less cells and I don't touched any limits in it! And this is not a complex map by the way :erg: .

EDIT: and the differences after portalization. Still don't know which value is the culprit :confused:
(http://s9.postimg.org/qt5lt4vbj/errortableb.png) http://s21.postimg.org/9y3icsig7/errortablea.png

EmperorSteele on 4/8/2013 at 15:24

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Have you tried "hovering" any terrain? It will look weird if anyone gets too close, so save this for background or far-off elements, but basically there's an old trick where if you have, say, a column that goes from floor to ceiling, you can shave off like .5 or .25 from the total size so it doesn't quite touch the ceiling and/or floor. This, for some reason*, reduces poly/cell counts and scene complexity.

*iirc, if you have a blank rectangular room, Thief will render a couple polygons for each surface (let's say its 2 polys per surface, for a total of 12 (only 10 which the player can see at any given time). Conventional thinking would suggest that a column wouldn't do anything besides add a few polys of its own. This isn't the case. When two planes meet, the Dark Engine uses extra polys to render the brushes by sub-dividing the brush into several smaller brushes. But if you hover the column, the dark engine will render the original 12 polys, plus whatever the column is made up of, without adding extra brushes. It's hard to explain in words, but there should be an old design tech document in your dromed docs folder explaining the situation.

Soul Tear on 14/8/2013 at 12:57

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More than two weeks I am fighting with this problem but I have no progress.
I've had more than 65000 cells, and I got the message "too many cells." I deleted a giant air brush (together with all buildings) - and the number of cells decreased to 62 000. Optimization is OK.
Then I loaded the source file and I began to delete each brush successively. So I could see how the cell limit is reduced.
However, when I reached 62000 - optimization is not working! I reduced cell limit to 61 - NOT worked, 60 - as well. Then I deleted a big building - it reduced the limit to 59000 and optimization is OK.
I loaded the source file again and began to delete each brush. I got to 59000 and then to 58000 cells - but optimization does not work. WHAT IS IT? Dark Engine plays tricks on me...

I checked in other place with the different brushes.
I deleted the stair at once (located at an angle not a multiple of 90 or 22.5 degrees) - Optimizing is OK. I deleted the stair successively (in the end all the stairs deleted) - does not work.

I deleted all the pyramids, cylinders, and dodecahedrons which I added recently - not worked. I even deleted all of that I built up to the moment when the full optimization is worked - NOT worked...

I just hope my broken English will not be able to prevent you understand my problem. I have no idea what I to do.

Apparently my mission is too complicated or improperly constructed. Until I see only one way: carve up into two parts. :(

fibanocci on 15/8/2013 at 11:07

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I tested some more and compared FMs.
This is a test mission. It's full of cylinders and dodecahedrons. Optimize is fine

I can add stuff until I get to this size. Optimise is still fine

Adding one more brush, and I get this


Looks like, I hit the limit. Which limit? It's not the WR-cell limit. I think, it's another one.

I loaded Beltzers "The Favour" into DromEd. It's a pretty big mission.

Beltzer: The Favour

I've put tons of multibrushes (cylinders, dodecahedrons...) into Beltzers map until I reached this

optimise is still fine. This is strange. Comparing the data, I can see one big difference to my testing map. Beltzers map only has 2755 Unique render aspects. And I can put tons of stuff into Beltzers map. I hit the limit at 7992 in the testing map. I can't add a single brush without messing up optimization. So I guess, this is the limit for MAX_GLOBAL_RENDER.

I can even put more stuff in Beltzers map, but optimize doesn't work anymore



Uh, I hit another limit. This time MAX_GLOBAL_POINTS. But I did not hit the limit for MAX_GLOBAL_RENDER.

How did Beltzer built this mission? I guess, this is the clue for creating a very big mission.

We could compare some more "csmerges", so we can see, whats going on.