Koki on 2/9/2008 at 04:35
Quote Posted by Jashin
Video games as a whole is not art, it's a product, especially in the west. A guy like Miyamoto in America would've split off, formed his own company, made his fortune, conglomerated and gone on to make cross-platform bullshit to sate seasonal revenue projections long ago.
As opposed to staying in the company, raking off billions and putting them all to rehash same games again and again and again for various platforms and cockblocking indie developers... oh wait
Jashin on 2/9/2008 at 06:05
Totally naive icemann, saying that profits are at the very end of the priorities list :cheeky: If there's no profit, games would not be made. If there's no profit, the companies would not exist.
Sure, you can have selective artists who work in this industry, and selective titles that stand up to scrutiny as classics, but all of that still doesn't make videogame art in itself, or as a medium capable of conveying enduring values.
Most games are doodling in the B-movie caliber range, if there's any attempt at all to tell a story. And as far as that grand old gameplay crutch of "killing stuff", videogames seem to still be wallowing in it, infantile as ever. And it's getting more and more explicit. Gotta render the way the guy's head explode into chunks, or the way limbs detach from the body and blood scatters! I mean is that necessary?
How often do you, after playing a game, contemplate about what you've experienced? Maybe something's inspired you to a degree that it pulled you back into life itself? If you say "all the time," then you must not be a gamer of this century.
The business model of the industry here in the west is not to churn out enduring classics that'll keep you satisfied for years to come, it's to get you to buy games regularly, and maybe a good title or two a year (a very generous estimate) so people don't completely fall off the wagon. The era of creative freedom has long been over. Big name titles nowadays have production value only (tons of rehashed gameplay, not even quality assurance), whereas the few smaller creative ones are, well, one nobody ever plays them! Beyond Good and Evil - nobody played it, and now it's coming back more casual than ever. High five?!
Quote Posted by Koki
As opposed to staying in the company, raking off billions and putting them all to rehash same games again and again and again for various platforms and cockblocking indie developers... oh wait
LOL you've got to be a GIANT idiot if you call the mario games the same thing over and over. Sure, characters are the same immortal ones, and the motive's the same, but they all play differently. Nintendo has been the only company consistently innovative in some form or another because of Miyamoto. Is there a company out there with someone who has same degree of creative vision and a pulse on both critical and commercial success, that I don't know of? Or how about the fact that Zelda titles come once or twice per system's lifespan instead of the annual updates? What, COD5 this November? Really!
CCCToad on 2/9/2008 at 09:41
What about Deus Ex, an obvious one?
The game does a pretty good job of arguing "security vs freedom". I'll post more when I have time, but I think that if the game had come out after 9/11, it might have caused a bit of a stir.
Gambit on 2/9/2008 at 11:33
Cool list of games Demagoge !
And this discussion about game content is reminding me of Hollywood. It´s all about entertenmaint and escapism, directed by executives. The real artists are mostly doing indies to portray their views.
I think political/philosophical games will only develop as indie games for now. The indie game as a message from the author or as a theme to reflect and discuss.
Like this CS Mod made as an anti-war game:
(
http://www.opensorcery.net/velvet-strike/about.html)
Koki on 2/9/2008 at 13:37
Quote Posted by Jashin
Nintendo has been the only company consistently innovative in some form or another because of Miyamoto.
All I can do is laugh.
Fragony on 2/9/2008 at 14:50
Love it or hate it, there are many reasons to dislike nintendo and they are all the sorry loss of the one disliking nintendo for them.
catbarf on 2/9/2008 at 14:54
If the theme is done well, then I have no problem with it. If it is overbearing and blatant, then I'd prefer it to be abandoned entirely.
june gloom on 2/9/2008 at 15:53
Quote Posted by CCCToad
What about Deus Ex, an obvious one?
The game does a pretty good job of arguing "security vs freedom". I'll post more when I have time, but I think that if the game had come out after 9/11, it might have caused a bit of a stir.
Seconded. I'm sure everyone's noticed the conspicious absence of the WTC in the NYC skyline due to an art mishap- and ISA's internal rationalization that "terrorists did it." Spooky...
icemann on 2/9/2008 at 18:54
Quote Posted by Jashin
Totally naive icemann, saying that profits are at the very end of the priorities list :cheeky: If there's no profit, games would not be made. If there's no profit, the companies would not exist.
Wrong again. Games get made completely for non profit all the time.
(
www.retroremakes.com)
Go have a look at how many games are made and released for free all the time on that site. Why? Because they love making games, nothing more. Same goes for me entirely when I make levels or work on my game. As I said, money isn`t a high priority in that list. If all you care about in life is money then you end up a very miserable old man.
To give you another example. Did Picaso paint paintings because of all the money he could get out of it? or because he loved to paint? Answer seems pretty damn clear to me. And same exact thing to games development.
Ofcourse games developers get money, which in turn leads to them continuing on as a company, but thats just a means to an end, and not the goal of the project itself. Did Ian Levine go and set Bioshock in motion for the money, or because he loved making games like that. Answer again is quite clear.
CCCToad on 2/9/2008 at 19:04
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Seconded. I'm sure everyone's noticed the conspicious absence of the WTC in the NYC skyline due to an art mishap- and ISA's internal rationalization that "terrorists did it." Spooky...
No, that wasn't what I was referring to, although your sarcasm and trolling are much appreciated....
I was referring more to the game's subtle message that terrorism is something that can be used to consolidate power and remove civil liberties by a party with that agenda.
