demagogue on 4/9/2008 at 17:43
I don't have an issue with your (Jashin) general way of thinking.
It's similar to someone like Adorno, who thought the consumerization of art was too "distracting" and gutting it of cultural value; as he'd say we've lost a space for potentially revolutionary reflection and imagination. It's a persuasive argument.
But that's still a separate question from artistic criticism itself. There's 1. art criticism, then 2. commentary on art criticism. The OP question was 1. You're answering 2.
So there's still a non-sequiter when you mix the two categories 1 & 2.
Q. Is it beautiful?
A. People behind the money [funding games] try to do the work of artists, but have their own [commercial] interest beyond being creative.
Rather than, for example, "No, because...", and then you point out some list of visual & acoustic features.
That was my only issue from the start. It's not even that big a deal, except it's pulled the thread off the straight- forward Topic 1 into the mire of Topic 2.
Pyrian on 4/9/2008 at 22:37
Quote Posted by Jashin
The whole thing about trying to qualify VG as an artistic medium is to try to lend it some romantic credence behind its monetary success. But I don't think the industry as a whole deserves it yet.
Funny, I feel exactly the same about modern art.
Gambit on 5/9/2008 at 11:34
Quote Posted by demagogue
It's similar to someone like Adorno, who thought the consumerization of art was too "distracting" and gutting it of cultural value; as he'd say we've lost a space for potentially revolutionary reflection and imagination. It's a persuasive argument.
Adorno had an interesting view about the difference between art and industrial culture.
For him art is without a function. Art´s objective is art itself. For Adorno propaganda art isn´t art (like Jashin said).
But Adorno never removed art from it´s commercial needs. He pointed out that artists were always needing the financial back up of the Church to do their work. So they were a bit limited on the artistic themes: only religious work. Later the bourgeoisie replaced the church as the artists´founders.
And now the open market gives more freedom for the artist because he can now choose his theme, instead of always doing a church painting or a rich man´s portrait.
So art is always bound to commerce (artists do need feeding and clothing to live anyway). It´s innevitable. But for Adorno even with that commercial backup art remains art because of they serve their own purpose even if they have a monnetary value attached to them.
As for cultural industry, cinema with sound, radio, jazz... Adorno hated it. He saw it as a piece of work with financial back up whose purpose was not in itself but a tool of the men in power to alienate the opressed (he was marxist jew in the nazi era so he had very strong views on facism, propaganda and capitalism).
He would probably see VG as another alienating tool since most games are just part of a cultural industry of entertainment without trying to convey a deep message or to reflect about issues...
Sorry, long post. It´s just that I´m studying journalism and that guy comes a lot on class.
a flower in hell on 5/9/2008 at 15:19
art (noun)
1. the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2. the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3. a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.
4. the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture.
5. any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.
6. (in printed matter) illustrative or decorative material: Is there any art with the copy for this story?
7. the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling.
8. the craft or trade using these principles or methods.
9. skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation.
10. a branch of learning or university study, esp. one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature.
11. arts,
a. (used with a singular verb) the humanities: a college of arts and sciences.
b. (used with a plural verb) liberal arts.
12. skilled workmanship, execution, or agency, as distinguished from nature.
13. trickery; cunning: glib and devious art.
14. studied action; artificiality in behavior.
15. an artifice or artful device: the innumerable arts and wiles of politics.
16. Archaic. science, learning, or scholarship.
I think this pretty much proves Jashin dead wrong on all counts.
june gloom on 5/9/2008 at 17:08
Fragony, do you think you can take that picture without the flash? ;)
