Exhaustion 2012 (or, It's Not Forcible Rape if the SuperPAC is Willing) - by june gloom
SubJeff on 1/9/2012 at 11:07
I'm not saying that, I'm saying that they wouldn't do them unless they were worthwhile.
I know we have some mad ideas over here but do you really think we'd keep this institution around if it served no purpose at all?
Thirith on 1/9/2012 at 11:15
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I know we have some mad ideas over here but do you really think we'd keep this institution around if it served no purpose at all?
I think that people are extremely good at lying to themselves about what they're doing in order to convince themselves that what they're doing is worthwhile. The UK isn't different in that respect, but (like Switzerland) I do think that nostalgia about one's past is stronger and more widespread than in most other Western European countries, and one of the ways in which this is expressed is the largely uncritical veneration of the Royal family. (There is criticism, but it all remains on the surface. There's very little actual, reasonable discussion about their worth, at least as far as I can tell from outside the UK.)
SubJeff on 1/9/2012 at 11:40
Well it boils down to utilitarianism and pragmatism doesn't it? If you want to really be strict about things there is no need for them, they shouldn't have any position of privilege and should be abolished forthwith.
But we don't live in a purely utilitarian world or we wouldn't have computer games, would we? They are part of our cultural heritage and also continue to give us something. Is is pound for pound worth what they get? We don't measure things in that way do we?
Thirith on 1/9/2012 at 11:49
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
But we don't live in a purely utilitarian world or we wouldn't have computer games, would we? They are part of our cultural heritage and also continue to give us something. Is is pound for pound worth what they get? We don't measure things in that way do we?
Sure, absolutely. Personally I think they are pretty much worthless and toxic, because (differently from you) I do think that in the UK by and large more stock is put into notions of class being more than just privilege due to an accident of birth - my impression is that too many people see these accidents of birth as somehow indicative of a person's worth or of how deserved the power and privilege are that come along with birth. Unless I'm mistaken, the UK is doing somewhat poorly in terms of social mobility compared to countries that are comparable in terms of their economy, and while I don't think that's entirely due to the UK's legacy of a class system that was/is more pervasive than in other countries, I believe it's one of the relevant factors.
Al_B on 1/9/2012 at 11:56
I personally think a lot of it comes down to how you judge worth. The Royal Family in the UK may have access to a lot of money and status but the baggage that goes along with it is something I'd not wish on my worst enemies.
Vasquez on 1/9/2012 at 11:57
Quote Posted by Thirith
I think that people are extremely good at lying to themselves about what they're doing in order to convince themselves that what they're doing is worthwhile.
Then comes the question of who gets to define "worthwhile".
SubJeff on 1/9/2012 at 12:23
Thirith - I respectfully disagree. The lack of social mobility here has little, if anything, to do with our class system and almost everything to do with the anti-intellectualism that is rampant and the welfare system.
Anti-intellectualism is incredibly pervasive here. It is not "cool" to do well at school and hasn't been for a long time. You can see the rants that the newspapers here have about "fat cat" bankers/lawyers/doctors/other profession of your choice any time online. And yes these most popular of tabloids fail to see the irony in their lauding of "celebrities" who are rich and famous for being famous/having big tits.
The welfare system here allows people to live endlessly on benefits and having a child at a young age in order to secure state provided housing and money rather than getting a job/education is an entirely viable option. There are generations of families that have done this now. I know families where 3 generations have never worked. It is not an uncommon observation that areas with a high social services housing density also possess the highest density of Sky TV satellite dishes.
Both of these, imo, are what leads to social stagnation. If those layabouts on welfare choose to feel slighted by the class system its only down to their own actions.
Al_B on 1/9/2012 at 12:48
Excellent - we've managed to change the discussion from Republican voting in the US to discussions about the Royal family in the UK vs scroungers living on benefits who prefer to watch TV rather than rise up against the class system.
SubJeff on 1/9/2012 at 13:33
We may have the Royals, the existence of which you can question, but we certainly don't have the nuts political situation that occurs in the USA! :p
What amazes me about it is it's supposedly the shining beacon of democracy, or so you'd think when you hear some of the rhetoric expressed on US tv shows about other countries.
Chimpy Chompy on 1/9/2012 at 13:47
Haha well played by Jason Moyer there. Distracting us from the fact that Sarah Palin could have been one elderly man's heart attack away from being president of the USA.
As a UKer I'd understand there's a strongly conservative base in the US and republicans will represent those values. Low tax\lowspending\guns\jebus etc. It's not like they're ever going to be something the euro-liberals in the TTLG crowd will approve of. :p Still some of the prospective candidates they've come up with lately have been quite scary.
