Exhaustion 2012 (or, It's Not Forcible Rape if the SuperPAC is Willing) - by june gloom
heywood on 2/9/2012 at 08:48
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
The only people who have a problem with the class system here are those that don't have any. And even if we "abolished" the class system (as if that's ever going to happen) people are still naturally in a certain class. Changing the names isn't going to alter behaviour and it isn't going to change the socio-economic class you are in.
President Sarah Palin scares me less than this statement.
june gloom on 2/9/2012 at 09:11
Wealthy white European vehemently arguing in favour of a class system because without such, peons might dare to demand equality. Is anyone surprised?
Vasquez on 2/9/2012 at 09:13
What the fuck people? Don't you know the difference between stating a fact and advocating an idea?
No matter what you believe in or what you wish to be true, the reality is this:
In most societies there is
- a group of filthy rich people
- And a group of rich people
- And a group of moderately nice income people
- And a group of small income people
- And a group of people with minimal income or none at all
The lifestyles, living areas etc, even level of health between these groups are measurably different = the segments that were called "classes" before are still there. They don't stop existing no matter how big guns you use to shoot the messenger.
(Sorry SE for butting in, carry on ;) )
Scots Taffer on 2/9/2012 at 09:29
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
What's your explanation for it then, clever clogs?
Just before I respond to your post in a thoughtful manner, don't you see how a snide opening line can spawn horrible back-and-forths rather than a reasonable discussion?
It's simply not necessary. Anyway...
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
We don't have the food, weather or scenery of many other European countries (except in Scotland actually, but a lot of the time, as you well know, it's just too damn rainy/cold for many people) and if you don't think our monarchy plays a large role in tourism here you're madder than I am.
Except that's not what I was arguing - I was arguing that they do contribute but not necessarily vastly outperforming the tourist trade the UK might have if they were a
former monarchy.
I'd say the biggest thing the UK has going for it is that they once has sole dominion of over half the world and as a result lots of people want to know "where they come from".
Add to that notion that it's this quaint little island full of tradition and anachronistic social/monarchist structures then it doubly piques their curiosity as to how those bastards from blighty owned everywhere when they are so busy reaching for their just-popped-monacles when someone lets out a burp.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
As to Royal Visits; come on, you know it matters. If it didn't why would we have this:
...
Why would she bother with all that over the years?
Sorry, so you show me a bunch of photos designed to prove that she likes travelling or something? And why would she bother doing it? What would you occupy your time with if you were filthy rich and can't live like a regular person? I'd fly around the world and be treated like I'm King Shit too, I suppose...? I still don't see how you can argue it's made one iota of difference on international diplomacy for the Brits in their recent history.
Quote Posted by Vivian
Mate, have you
seen Prince Charles? There's some serious shadow-over-innsmouth type shit going on with his face. What class system? It's just a reflection of how rich you are. We have as much of a class system as any other country.
lol @ both the Charles gag and the idea that Britain isn't crippled by generations of classism.
heywood on 2/9/2012 at 09:47
Quote Posted by Vasquez
What the fuck people? Don't you know the difference between stating a fact and advocating an idea?
No matter what you believe in or what you wish to be true, the reality is this:
In most societies there is
- a group of filthy rich people
- And a group of rich people
- And a group of moderately nice income people
- And a group of small income people
- And a group of people with minimal income or none at all
The lifestyles, living areas etc, even level of health between these groups are measurably different = the segments that were called "classes" before are still there. They don't stop existing no matter how big guns you use to shoot the messenger.
And the only people who have a problem with the massive inequality and lack of class mobility in the UK are people who are "ineffective human beings" and therefore their views don't count. Do you agree with that part too?
SubJeff defended a system that limits mobility, promotes inequality, and sustains a privileged class. That's what blows my mind, not a statement of facts.
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Except that's not what I was arguing - I was arguing that they do contribute but not necessarily vastly outperforming the tourist trade the UK might have if they were a former monarchy.
I'll go further. No matter how much it may or may not contribute, tourism shouldn't be justification for keeping a monarchy. Monarchies are bad. Even a neutered monarchy that no longer retains political power is still bad. It provides top cover for the whole system of peerage, which in turn promotes acceptance of privilege by birthright. These are feudal institutions that shouldn't exist in 2012.
Vasquez on 2/9/2012 at 09:54
Sorry, I can't find any part where he defends it.
More English lessons for me I guess, again!
Chimpy Chompy on 2/9/2012 at 10:30
The ineffective human beings reference was with regards to benefits scroungers. And he was referring to them having a problem with social categories being *called* class.
So yeah the snippy tones and back and forth with Jay haven't helped. And maybe the scroungers line is harsh, or not, I won't get into that. But I think people are getting angry at stuff he didn't quite say.
SubJeff on 2/9/2012 at 10:47
Thanks for the summary Vasquez. I guess I didn't explain myself properly.
heywood - I'm not defending a "system", I'm saying how it is (as always). I'm just not that bothered about the names that we use. Do you think that what are class systems by any other name don't exist in every single country, and haven't done throughout all of time?
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Wealthy white European vehemently arguing in favour of a class system because without such, peons might dare to demand equality. Is anyone surprised?
I'm neither, and what are you on about? "peons"? What? I think we do have equality here in the UK thanks. Yes certain people are restricted in what they can and can't do but that is due to their behaviour and abilities, not and perception of class. Would you want it any other way?
heywood on 2/9/2012 at 10:47
Quote Posted by Vasquez
Sorry, I can't find any part where he defends it.
More English lessons for me I guess, again!
Starting with his very first sentence on this topic:
Quote Posted by SubJeff
The only people who have a problem with the class system here are those that don't have any.
SubJeff on 2/9/2012 at 10:55
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Except that's not what I was arguing - I was arguing that they do contribute but not necessarily vastly outperforming the tourist trade the UK might have if they were a
former monarchy.
I'd say the biggest thing the UK has going for it is that they once has sole dominion of over half the world and as a result lots of people want to know "where they come from".
Add to that notion that it's this quaint little island full of tradition and anachronistic social/monarchist structures then it doubly piques their curiosity as to how those bastards from blighty owned everywhere when they are so busy reaching for their just-popped-monacles when someone lets out a burp.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I believe that the ongoing monarchy is much more interesting to tourists than a former monarchy would be. And yes it is due to the history of Empire (which you may or may not heave at. I personally think the Empire was a terrible thing) but the continued royal paraphernalia only serves to enhance the whole thing.
But do you really think that the UK has been somehow crippled by the class system? How so?
