lost_soul on 15/7/2010 at 20:54
My music works great. I buy nothing but used audio CDs from sites like Amazon. They play on any machine I have, regardless of operating system.
It isn't just that I boycott movies: I've never really been into them much in the first place. Games are much more engaging and interesting than just sitting and watching a story unfold IMO. With a game, particularly a multiplayer one, you never know what will happen. It is never the same exact experience twice. I love that!
Sulphur on 15/7/2010 at 21:09
Right, so you advocate avoiding the system altogether by ensuring the creators don't get a penny out of it from your side? Whatever. CDs won't last forever by your estimation, anyhow.
The issue isn't whether you're boycotting games or movies; the issue is fundamentally this - what do you intend to achieve by boycotting anything with superficial DRM when you're part of a very small minority? It's not going to change anything any time soon.* And you're not going to get to play something like TF2 or L4D which, by all accounts, are things you'd enjoy.
*And if it's something as nebulous and hackneyed as, 'it's the principle of the thing', then let's just drop this line of conversation right now, because that's just a self-defeating argument.
lost_soul on 15/7/2010 at 21:23
My point is that I'm willing to pay, as long as they provide what I want. Those who try to manipulate me do not deserve payment. That money will go to the used market instead. I would love to play TF2, but I don't want to encourage the use of Steam. One can make the argument that it is a multiplayer game, so who cares if it requires activation. (you're not going to play the thing by yourself, are you?) Yet still, if I buy that, it increases the chances of something like Thief becoming shackled to a service like Steam.
I like to think that my $ helps shape the market in the direction I want it to go, but I do realize my place in this world: I'm just a wallet to be emptied and nothing more.
Besides, there are *tuns* of online shooters to play these days. (many of which are free!)
Sulphur on 15/7/2010 at 21:29
I'd agree with the manipulation bit if it were true. Steam is pretty transparent about how it works, though. It isn't Starforce, and it isn't Ubi's UberDRM, which I am actively against. If you want in on Steam and its benefits, you connect to the internet to activate your games. It works, it's unobtrusive, it doesn't infringe on my rights in any actively obnoxious way unless the internet's down. And even then, there are workarounds.
If you don't want offline games shackled to the internet, fair enough, but you've got to face one thing: once physical media is out, internet-enabled DRM is in. It's the future.
And dammit, I shoulda seen it coming, but this did boil down to 'it's the principle of it' in the end.
june gloom on 15/7/2010 at 23:21
Quote Posted by lost_soul
Besides, there are *tuns* of online shooters to play these days. (many of which are free!)
And quite shitty!
Papy on 16/7/2010 at 01:05
Quote Posted by lost_soul
Those who try to manipulate me do not deserve payment. That money will go to the used market instead.
I'm a bit confused. Does it mean you are willing to pay those who try to "manipulate" you, only if your money goes through a middleman?
lost_soul on 16/7/2010 at 02:14
No, when Joe user sells a used game on Amazon, the publisher doesn't see any of that money.
demagogue on 16/7/2010 at 02:47
Quote Posted by lost_soul
Most of the time, the game sellers/publishers tell you to "buy it now!". They don't say "license it now!". Are they deliberately lying to consumers?
Were you sleep-clicking every time you clicked the
"I Accept" button for the
license agreement of
every single commercial PC game you've ever installed in your life?
lost_soul on 16/7/2010 at 03:09
So if I sell you a stereo and hide a contract inside the CD changer that says "if you lend this stereo to a friend, it becomes my property again", that is alright? Is that contract that you couldn't have read prior to the stereo purchase binding? How about if I've been screaming "Stereo for sale!, buy it today!" out the window?
Consider this: not all those terms in an EULA are enforceable. In the past, the company would have to take you to court and argue that the portion of the agreement *is* enforceable. You people who buy games that can be remotely shut off are playing right into their hands.
Now all they have to do is shut off your game if you do something that violates the agreement, like publish performance benchmarks (yes, some EULAs forbid that). The publisher doesn't have to make sure the EULA is legal, because at the end of the day, they have control over what you *paid* for and can terminate access at will.
Papy on 16/7/2010 at 03:40
Quote Posted by lost_soul
No, when Joe user sells a used game on Amazon, the publisher doesn't see any of that money.
Joe sees your money and the publisher sees the money of Joe. Isn't that the definition of a middleman?
Ok. I agree, Joe is not exactly a middleman. He's more like your buddy who split the price with you.
If you really don't want the publisher and the artists to see any of your money, go to a store and steal the fucking DVD or CD. Don't give your money to a guy who will then give it to the publisher you hate so much.
