gunsmoke on 13/11/2008 at 05:11
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Sorry, but merely pointing out that I referred to Levine as a hack does not count as actually debating on it. "NO UR RONG" is ineffective until you explain why.
Don't get me wrong; I like Bioshock, and obviously I love TDP and SS2, but it doesn't make Levine
not a pretentious douchebag. Read some of the shit he's said in interviews before Bioshock came out. They sound exactly like a liberal arts majour being amazed he's getting paid for coming up with complete bullshit. Which is exactly what Levine is.
So your arguement has essentially become that he is, in fact talented (or at the very least an influential part of some of your favorite games) , but that he is just a horrible PR man. Gotcha.
june gloom on 13/11/2008 at 05:28
Well there's also the fact that the writing for Bioshock, IMO, is somewhat less than par.
Thirith on 13/11/2008 at 07:25
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Well there's also the fact that the writing for Bioshock, IMO, is somewhat less than par.
Compared to what? I haven't played
Bioshock for more than 4-5 hours, but I thought it did very well compared to 98% of computer games. Which, admittedly, isn't saying much...
Not that it's an original thought, but I feel that
Bioshock mainly shot itself in the foot with all the pre-release hype (and Ken Levine's hyperbolical promises didn't help). If we hadn't been hoping for a new
System Shock and got a
System Shock Lite, it would definitely have been less disappointing and I think that the resentment against the game and against Ken would be less severe.
Aja on 13/11/2008 at 08:46
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Well there's also the fact that the writing for Bioshock, IMO, is somewhat less than par.
What on EARTH is par, then? Bioshock's writing is far, far ABOVE par. I can't even... I just... sigh...
Thirith on 13/11/2008 at 08:56
Aja, you have to admit that Bioshock is no Ulysses. Or King Lear. Or Moby Dick. We should have standards, shouldn't we?
:joke:
Rogue Keeper on 13/11/2008 at 09:49
Quote Posted by van HellSing
A group of supermutants attacked me, I thought I was toast. Then, out of nowhere, a group of Brotherhood renegades appeared and slaughtered the mutants, then greeted me and went on patrolling. That was cool.
Oh, what you have Luck 8? :cheeky:
I've met my first lone supermutie with shotgun at night near Moonbeam Outdoor Cinema (northeast of Big Town) and there was no cool Brotherhood to save my charming girlie ass who's level 2, barely 50% in Small Arms and has 10mm pistol. Fortunately I managed to flee into the darkness of night, sneak and crawl away when he was searching for me. Nights are pretty dangerous in the wasteland!
What I like is that I have impression that things do happen "offline" in that world even without my presence. People fight with animals and other people. Just like in Oblivion and Stalker, I'm discovering dead bodies of animals and raiders and settlers. I don't know whether they were actually living NPCs who died in a real battle happening in that world or they were put there randomly by some script or they were put there by designers, but it seems they were genuinely fighting and perished "offline". Yet I have to witness such random conflicts to be sure... I was discovering dead bodies in Oblivion as well and wondered who/what killed them, but unlike in Stalker, never came across random battles. Here mases of NPCs don't migrate from one area to another like in Stalker...
So far I behaved like an angel, but I'm thinking about letting Burke to blow off Megaton. After I accomplish those few quest for people there. With Black Widow perk I managed to convince him to find someone else for the job, he vanished and promised he'll get me out of there before he arranges the nuke to explode. And why? Because I'm a selfish, irresistible elitist bitch who uses stupid guys for her own ends and wants to live in a luxury appartment in Tenpenny tower! Perhaps I can kill Burke later... while he's sleeping. And inherit all his property!What I like a lot that you can oscilate between good and evil, not just play either a new Jesus of the Wasteland or Satan's Right Hand, but also dwell in morally grey area. And so far it seems more interesting than in previous Fallouts where I ended either as Jesus or Satan.
Quote Posted by Aerothorn
I'm enjoying the game as an RPG, but the dialog is so not Fallout. Fallout had actual CONVERSATIONS in the dialog - you said something, you got a response that made sense, you replied to that, etc. In this game, I come across someone in an extreme situation, use my Speech skill, and with a single sentence I completely change their mind. What the hell? The sentence wasn't even that convincing. This is particularly noticeable in the "superheroes" sidequest.
Sadly that's true. And all it wanted is to have good writers. They're afraid of long dialogues, but then long dialogues aren't in fashion in games anymore...
Still, it's a lot better than in Oblivion and now I think that most characters have actually some distinct personality and aren't just clones, but the character depth is still miles behind Vampire Bloodlines, f.e... But considering the size of the game I guess I will spend much time interacting with NPCs anyway.
Ad. Speech skill - see, just like in reality a written sentence doesn't have to sound convincing, but have a charismatic character who can make good facial expressions and has intelligent/charming/intimidating way of talking and he can convince many people to do his/her bidding even if he/she says bullshit.
Quote Posted by 242
Is it me, or quests really are too easy to accomplish? They're long, yes, but not quite challenging. I mean player practically doesn't have to think how to solve problems, each quest has 3 or so ways of solving and it seems usually the ways are pretty standard, so it's almost impossible to not hit the right path even if the player is totally dumb. Playing it on hard, I think the game isn't challenging enough...
I didn't accomplish many quests so far, but I can already tell that most of them would be easier than in KOTOR which I finished for the first time few days ago - it had nice logical puzzles in quests. In this aspect I think F3 is aimed at "less thinking" mainstream audience more than KOTOR games were. KOTOR also had a lot better writing, but then it's a more linear game because you don't do much freeform exploration.
Regarding the difficulty - perhaps it matters a lot HOW you actually play the game. Like I replied to van HellSing above, I have a negotiator character not focused on combat and I play at medium difficulty. I was just level 2 and I took quest in Megaton to deliver Lucy's message to West family.
In target location I realized the West family is dead and I've been pointed to three locations where I can find the last surviving member of the family. As I was exploring these locations I realized that maybe I'm going too far for current strength and skill level of my character. As I explored one cavern, I came across several radscorpions and raiders with sledgehammers and SMGs. And as I'm not too good with small arms, I was constantly running out of ammo and stims, I even had to defend myself with hammer and grenades which I thought I won't have to use at all. Eventually I cleaned out the cavern but at high cost of my resources and I didn't find the quest target person at all. And I'm not even saying about the desert vermin on the surface - I had to flee from that supermutie afterall...
So I think that for non-combat oriented characters with mediocre physical stats, the game isn't piece of cake, at least in the beginning. Often I'm really grateful for VATS - I can get rid of roaches and rats in real time, but anything stronger seems to ask for more tactical approach. I shall see how difficult it really is later when I'll be more skilled. Also I don't want my fragile spoiled girl to use automatic shotguns and such, I'd like to restrict my small arms use to pistols and SMGs - if the difficulty of hostile NPCs allows it later. And if it gets too easy, I can try to put difficulty up a bit to Hard or try out some mods...
242 on 13/11/2008 at 10:32
This game is HUGE. I thought that I'd found at least half of the game's areas, but when I looked (
http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/918428/54670) here I understood that for more or less full exploration it would take
at least 200-300 hours. It would be better if indoor areas weren't copy-pasted as much, I mean their layout differs, but design and most of the objects generally stay the same - basically similarly looking labyrinths with lots of doors. I guess it's the necessary evil when a game has huge world.
Rogue Keeper on 13/11/2008 at 10:54
Also check out this map. (
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_map)
There are also interactive flash maps flying out there, but I still wait for a large and pretty looking map like some which fans made for Oblivion.
I admit the size of the world is intimidating, I fear to think how long it takes me to finish one campaign if I dare to explore the world in detail, but it will all depend on how immersed I'll feel. But we can always use fast travelling to make things shorter.
vurt on 13/11/2008 at 11:23
Quote Posted by 242
This game is HUGE.
Yeah it's supposed to be smaller than Oblivion though, but imo it feels larger.
I can't believe that swedish PCGamer complained about the size of the world and that there were people and enemies everywhere?? They must have played another game or they didn't play the game at all. I've had some situations where i've walked for like 5 minutes before seeing anyone, i think this is one of the things they've done just right with the game, if it felt too deserted (like not seeing anyone for 10 minutes it would become way too boring)
Rogue Keeper on 13/11/2008 at 11:28
However some people point out that level 20 capping is unfortunate for people who focus on exploration, as they level up quickly and then they encounter only strong opponents... I dunno to what extent it's true, but if it is, it means F3 still has some kind of NPC autolevelling. Unfortunately workarounds and mods removing the level capping have issues and cause the game to behave weirdly in some ways, so there are solutions which lower the XP gain for killing creatures. Beth could do us a favor and remove level capping in one of the future patches.
