Jason Moyer on 14/11/2008 at 12:09

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Copy/paste to me has less to do with reusing the same assets (which FO3 does at times both outdoors and indoors) and more to do with using the exact same level design and literally copying and pasting it Oblivion style. The metros are really the only part of Fallout 3's world design that reminds me of the hundreds of horrible dungeons in Oblivion, and thankfully the game is designed so that you can entirely avoid them if you want to. Also, since the metro is essentially one really big dungeon split into different zones, copy/pasting can probably be forgiven.

As far as the main buildings and such, I thought FO3 had a lot of variety. My biggest disappointment with the game, tbh, is the length. I thought I was about halfway through the main quest yesterday, in the 45-50 hour range, and I was actually about half an hour from the end which was a let down. I went back and loaded the autosave from exiting the vault, and managed to reach the end of the 5th main quest in 13 minutes. The final half of the main questline will take longer, but still. Vault exit to halfway-finished in 13 minutes. That's messed up.

Jason Moyer on 14/11/2008 at 12:34

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Yeah, I had the same experience. I completed every quest that goes into your journal except for 3 (one that I left unfinished, and 2 I never started) and I still had maybe 2/3 of the map markers unvisited. As much as I despise DLC, I hope that they release some addons like they did with Oblivion, or even better, a full expansion. I seemed to remember reading that DLC would focus on new questlines rather than new assets (locations, armor, etc).

Judith on 14/11/2008 at 13:46

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The world might be a bit smaller, but it feels much bigger, probably due to such number of locations. BTW. I don't understand why they used these annoying, ridiculous "You cannot go further. Turn back." messages - I know the world must be limited somehow, but they had a perfect tool to do it - radiation pockets! Doh, they even used it at some point in the quest! :nono:

Phatose on 14/11/2008 at 14:38

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It's all the things. The game mechanics are simply Oblivions with a fallout skin applied. I don't think you're going to find anyone arguing that. But the feel and story aren't so hot either. The feel of the game is Fallout, but unfortunately that's Fallout as in the first game whether it's appropriate or not. Deathclaws and Radscorps, for example - they can be somewhat explained with the pet store excuse, but then they make up a huge portion of the local ecosystem. We've got mutated bears, but what about mutated deer, or other eastern wildlife? It's like Bethesda knew radscorps were a staple of the series, but didn't stop to think for an instant why they were important.
You have ghouls which are everywhere, and have been retconned to spring up from any signifigant radiation source, instead of being created entirely on the day the bombs dropped (We are the first, and last, generation of ghouls). Supermutants which really were the master's game on the other coast, running around the east coast, with no proper explanation as to why, and even worse, no reason for their existence. They unessential to the plot of the game.
The enclave, which still calls itself the enclave after the enclave it was named for got nuked, running around DC for no adequately explained reason. Then a stupid involvement in the plot, with the exact same nefarious intentions as they had in FO2, with the exact same means of accomplishing it, except of course this time it's not airborne cause then it would be completely stupid.

Then you tack on things like raiders who decorate with decaying corpses for no reason, and the whole thing ends up feeling not quite glued together.



Really, the whole thing comes across as being made by someone who knew what was important in fallout, but didn't understand the why of things.

Rogue Keeper on 14/11/2008 at 15:26

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I agree that Special/Perk system has been primitivized a lot, but it would be better if we go into details of the mechanics. I think that getting rid of To Hit roll connected with Armor Class is rational - you don't miss the target in power armor just because his power armor has high AC. Better armor just reduces the damage. On the other hand, Luck serves no obvious purpose - allegedly you still have plenty of critical headshots with Luck 1. Regarding the borked controls, most of it can be blamed on intention to satisfy Mr. Gamepad.



I hear people saying the story is mediocre, but what I see as a positive is that here we have no initial MacGuffin sucked out of thumb during toilet session, in form of water chip or GECK. However I can't profoundly comment the story until I finish it...



Granted, it would be too much to ask for some kind of advanced ecosystem like A-Life in Oblivion (which didn't end up like it was promised to in the first place). They could have added more animals from original games, like geckos or pigrats. But the most important species are there. However blaming them for not creating X more species just because you would naturally expect them to be in that region seems a bit unfair...



That could have been easily just one ghoul's opinion 150 years ago. Remember how Harold was created - by fumes from the FEV vats. Imagine a Fallout game without ghouls and the following rant of ghoul sympathizers. They're present in Tactics too.



I think just like ghouls, Supermutants became an expected element in any Fallout game. At least they provided some explanation in FAQ.
According to a Fallout ending, most super mutants fled to the East after the death of the Master. It's not implausible for at least some them to have reached the East Coast after 115 years.
The death of the Master was the first major step towards ending his mad dream of conquest and enforced peace, but it is the destruction of the Vats that neutralizes the mutant threat. Without the ability to create more mutants and enforce their harsh brand of justice, the mutant armies flee to the east, beyond the no-man's land.
(http://nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=37329#Why_are_there_super_mutants_on_the_East_Coast.3F_Shouldn.27t_they_all_be_in_California.3F)

However, regarding origin of East Coast supermutants, it's said that exploring Vault 87 can provide more information.



FAQ says "While the Oil Rig was blown up, Navarro and/or some other Enclave outposts might have survived and used Vertibirds to get to the East Coast. It is, however, unknown at this moment why they're there."

Which can be a bit limping explanation, but it's not difficult to imagine that there are forces out there which claim their historical right for leadership of the United States. Is there really no explanation found on computers/holodiscs or provided by president himself, about their history in the East Coast? Retconning is natural curse of sequels.

If somebody minds presence of established Fallout universe elements like ghouls, supermutants or the Brotherhood, then they should be asked a relevant question : how far should have been the Fallout 3 environment evolved and still hold right to be considered as genuine Fallout universe? Some want to see more progress in that world while the others want to see most, if not all established features from previous games. You realize it's not possible to fully satisfy everybody's expectations?