Phatose on 14/11/2008 at 17:00

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Would other subsections of the US government call themselves the enclave though? It's fairly obvious that the Enclave was the name of the oil rig, and other subsections would not have been named equivalently.

And cannibal or not, do you decorate your house with rotting food?




The mechanics are more then simple armor class not affecting to hit. The combat mechanics are entirely overhauled. Perception No longer affects range, Armor is a single defense value instead the the per-damage type block/reduction system fallout used, there is only one type of ammo per weapons and there are no ammo modifiers, critical hits have a single effect of extra damage instead of a table and a wide range of possibilities. Target agility and speed seems to have no effect on hit chance whatsoever, and the range effect ends up eclipsing all other considerations in an awful lot of situations. And those are just the combat considerations alone.

The critical hit problem, as far as I can tell, is an offshoot of the to-hit problem. In particular, range effects seem to also affect crit chances, and since range effects dominate an awful lot of the time....

It's Oblivion under the hood. It just is.



The point about the ghouls for instance - it may just be one ghouls opinion, but the complete lack of any post-war ghouls anywhere on the west coast, or ghoul children, for that matter - really adds weight to the matter.

And the radscorps/deathclaws, the issue isn't that they didn't make an entire ecosystem, it's that they plugged in west coast creatures instead of stopping to think about whether it was reasonable to do so. And in fact, that's really the trouble with all those things.



Now, I understand what you're saying about how people would complain if none of those things were there. But let me be blunt here - if Bethesda was concerned that it wouldn't have been a fallout without those things, the proper solution was to set the game in a time and place where having those things would've made sense.

They didn't. They decided they were going to put it in their hometown, and just screw consistency. If George Lucas were to decide to make Star Wars -1, and set it 1,000 years before Phantom Menace, then put it Stormtroopers and Star Destroyers because 'it's starwars', people would be all over that shit. Same here - if you're gonna change the venue, the details need to be changed too.


As for how much it should've been changed as still been fallout - that's easy. As much as makes sense in the bigger picture of the world. Weapons, technology, pre-war relics - anything before the collapse would've been largely homogeneous, and could've stayed the same. A laser rifle has as much business on the left coast as the right. Wildlife obviously should've been overhauled to fit the local fauna. Deathclaws and Radscorps weren't important except as far as they were the consequences of nukes on the local wildlife. Replacing them with mutant squirrels, Chipmunks, Bears - heck, even mutated cats and dogs would've been better then sticking them in willy nilly. The enclave - unnecessary. We have no reason to believe they weren't just yahoos anyway, and there's no reason there couldn't be a local completely seperate batch of yahoos who think they're the US government, especially given the locale.

Ostriig on 14/11/2008 at 17:38

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Fixed. Though, to be fair, I think some comics explored the subject before and served as inspiration for the games. Nope, I was wrong, comics came years after.

Jason Moyer on 14/11/2008 at 17:58

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Have you finished the game? Because it's pretty blatant about explaining the who/what/when/where/why of the supermutants in DC.

Jason Moyer on 14/11/2008 at 18:34

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I just assumed it was part of the V-T experimentation, and that the strain of FEV in FO3 was different than the one on the west coast (which would also be the reason behind the supermutants/centaurs being significantly different to the ones on the west coast).

Phatose on 14/11/2008 at 20:46

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Cars weren't nuclear powered, they were electric. They happened to be able to use micro-fusion cells, but they could happily use regular old energy cells as well. The 'nuke' thing is a Bethesda invention so they could have exploding TNT barrels around, because exploding things are neccessary in any action game.

And no, I don't expect realism, per se. But internal logic, basic common sense...yeah, that I expect. Raider Cannibal or not, you don't keep rotting meat around cause it stinks. Unless Cannibals all of the sudden can't smell either.



Where, exactly, is it made obvious the Enclave is the name of the bigger organization, and not the guys on the oil rig? Are you talking about something in FO2 I can reference, or in FO3, where Bethesda couldl've retconned the whole thing?