Rhadamanthos on 8/9/2006 at 03:13
First of all, I put the Cradle in a class by itself. It's a real work of art, embodying many of the best Thief concepts and also going beyond them.
TDP
Best: Cragscleft is a mission that never feels boring or confined. You move from the bright light and farmiliar environment outside to the mines, which you are invited to imagine are immensely more vast and complex than their real dimensions. Then you leave the mines and have to navigate the prison, which feels very much like a crowded, active facility. Being able to roam the other cell blocks and reach the roof makes the experience more variable, as does having a choice of exits.
Worst: In general, TDP missions are all very good. Each of them really does try to do something different. The one that I found most dissapointing was Strange Bedfellows, for the reasons we've already discussed, but also because it built anticipation that hung around going sour when nothing happened. The idea of helping the Hammerites in a desperate battle to hold off the Trickster's creatures is immensely cool. But the Hammerites are behind a locked door, and you just have to smash your way through a small, cramped area and move on to the real fun in the next mission. A bigger, more complex fight to retake the temple would have been more fun.
TMA
Best: We can all agree on the obviously great ones, so I'd like to talk about the ones that are being criticised. Markham's Isle is an odd, conceptually risky mission, but it has a lot of great features. If Soulforge or Life of the Party are smashing into the heart of the enemy, this mission is seeing them thrust into an odd place, at the edge of their influence. On the surface, it almost feels like a Red Army garrison town. Uniformed troops with advanced weapons in an odd, ironic context. That mood persists among the pirate shanties, and getting to that underground complex from the semi-daylight island creates a good feeling of alienation, one of the hallmarks of great missions. Soulforge also has much to reccomend it. Like Northon said, the building gives you a glimpse of the metal age. The huge masses of machines and patrolling children are very frightening, and seeing my first mechanist servant is a memory almost on the level of seeing my first Cradle resident (from behind, through the treatment room door). The constant taunting, the objective warning you that Karass might detect you (it does its job creating a mood even if it has no gameplay significance), and the fact that you can see him through the unbreakable glass of his chamber, serve to make you feel defeated and impotent.
Worst: Ambush was honestly very disappointing to me. City navigation and dodging guards is a great concept for a mission, but it wasn't executed to my satisfaction. The real innovation of TDS, apart from all its annoying flaws, was the fact the civilians don't arbitrarily run when they spot you, which makes it possible to really explore. The problem with Ambush, and with TDS, was that exploring the city is never really that exciting. In Ambush, all we have are streets that lead to blank walls and streets that don't. To make exploring the city worth doing, there would have to be lots of different routes to different places. Getting access to the pagan tunnels and using them if you allied with them, and using them to dart around the city unmolested, would be incredibly cool. The closest TMA or TDS come to real urban navigation is Life of the Party, but even that falls short of Thief's ultimate potental. I agree with all of you that said the endgame of TDS was disappointing for exactly this reason. Trying to outwit the hag in a truly complex city would have been a challenge worthy of Garret. Shooting a noisemaker arrow, running in and right clicking was not, though I still enjoyed the endgame because of the massive street battles.
TDS
Best: Aside from the obvious Cradle, I have to speak up for the Pagan Sanctuary. The thugs are a wonderful touch, and the pagans appearing out of the darkness in their black hoods give nature and chaos an edge of menace I haven't felt since the last time I heard the buzz of flies... A decaying urban setting, half-nature and half-ruin, is a very creative concept, and I felt that it was well executed. The disused Hammerite factory, in particular, was very well executed. The one major flaw was the ritual. Arrows I'll buy, but dumping a body on the altar just requires too much suspension of disbelief. Better to have a cutscene of Garret cutting his palm, like the pagan in the intro clip.
Worst: Gamal's Lair. You've all already said it. The statues just don't have the punch of the Trickster's beasts or the Children. They're big, cartooney targets for fire arrows. By the end, they're just an enemy to blackjack or wail away at. It's the fact that the main adversary is so unsatisfactory that really weakens TDS. Fortunately, the other adversaries, the Hammerites, the Pagans, the infinite array of Guards, even the Keepers (when they aren't getting beaten into the ground by the City Watch. If only they were attacking the hag's minions as you ran around trying to create the final glyph!).
Scytale on 11/9/2006 at 17:48
The Dark Project
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Fav: The Sword. At that point in TDP, you've seen some odd stuff, but you're still pretty accustomed to robbing mansions that obey the laws of physics. Then this gets thrown at you. Starts out as a nice, if a bit "eccentric", house. Then it just gets stranger and stranger. The way the surreality is "paced" in terms of progression just makes this level so much scarier. Just when you've gotten used to upside-down sitting rooms, doors with faces behind them, and forests indoors, you turn a corner to find- a walkway floating through black empty space, with the voices of little girls whispering in your ear. Plus all the "undousable" lights and predominance of tile make this one a right bitch, and I enjoy nothing if not a Thieves' Challenge.
Least: Strange Bedfellows. It's hard to point out a "least favourite" for TDP, because I like all those levels. This one, though- too tunnel-heavy. Yes, Bonehoard was rife with tunnels, but it broke up the monotone with all manner of very interesting chambers and catacombs. This one is all tunnel, all the time. And those cooing, fly-spitting bugbeasts? Garrett took the words out of my mouth when he says "That's it, I'm sick of these things!" or something after blackjacking one.
The Metal Age
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Fav: Life of the Party. How would you like to explore basically an entire city from the rooftops. How would you like to traipse through a full six-or-so stories of art-deco Mechanist skyscraper? How would you like to do both in one level, and then journey back across the City to the beginning. So gigantic, so lovingly crafted and full of details, and so all-encompassing in scope, it really blows my mind. And I don't know how many other game engines can handle that much map in one load.
Least: Casing the Joint. So you'll sneak into Gervaisius's place, take your fill, get the masks and cultivator before the exhibits are even finished, and that's that, right? Wrong. The masks are all right there, and you can pick them up and take them with you, but nooooo, that doesn't count, does it? You have to come back again for them a second time! Why? I don't often accuse LGS of creating pointless filler, but man...
Deadly Shadows
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Fav: House of the Widow Moira. The old pirate captain is dead. His household and crew are in turmoil. The widow is beyond hope. Greedy servants and hangers-on are jumping at the chance to steal the household's prized valuables. And there you are, robbing the whole place bloody blind. The tragedy is almost Shakespearean, and the level is soaked in loss and Eric Brosius's haunting piano lines.
Least: Checking Inn. I don't know if this should count, being a tutorial and all. But it's a forced tutorial, and one that purports to be a serious part of the initial story. Call it thieves' ego, but it's hard to get into the game when you feel like you're being led around on a leash.
Vhilhu on 11/9/2006 at 18:08
my favorite level: T2:MA First City Bank and Trust
that level had got it all. Life of the Party was good too and also had a fun book in necromancer's tower(my first encounter with zombies, and they are all around you behind your back!), i dont know why, but i just love the bank more.
my hated level: T2:Casing the Joint
no explanations needed. i havent played T:DS yet, i can only hope my new worst liked level wont come from there. TG had all fine, cant complain about a single one.
Scytale on 12/9/2006 at 01:28
Yeah, the Bank was a great level. In my opinion it was because it was so challenging. Bright electric lighting everywhere. Tile floors. Lots and lots of guards walking very tight patrols. Those Mech security faces and bots. And a very big and complex building with lots of ground to cover- good thing your map for the mission was so damn detailed, and you could write notes! It just demanded the best of your thieving skills, and seemed like a real accomplishment to beat.
Xmodule999 on 20/4/2015 at 05:30
This is too hard selection to decide, which mission is the best from anthology; probably some mission from T1.
Not Bafford's Manor, but third and fourth styles of running this mission is definitely something what curious. First style is with jumping to well, second style with risking death in front entrance. Third style - with climbing to pit's hatch and brush over this hatch (map shows this location as - front entrance, heavily guarded!!), Fourth style - touching the well without contact with water (!!!) - when the player is under map, only need to prevent his drop - by jumping several times, it would be creep across the floor, not standard going on the map ( (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcZiwaCYMt8) ).
Cigam on 20/4/2015 at 18:20
Framed, Soulforge, Masks where great and had great soundtracks.
Not really a fan of the City missions in Thief II.
Also have a special memory of The Sword since it gave me one of the most disturbing experiences in a game, first time I played it. That was because I got stuck trying to find out how to get on to the top floor, and so spent ages going around all these weird upside down rooms and rooms that lead into voids. Plus the occasional laugh you hear. The atmosphere was just so unrelentingly weird and I spent ages in it looking for the exit to the top floor. It got to me a little.
Also If I remember correctly Clagscleft is the first time I had that moment you sometimes get in a game, the realisation that the game you are playing is not just a good game, but is a great game.
Iceblade on 23/4/2015 at 23:17
I find that my rankings have changed over time.
Originally
Favored:
TDP: Strange Bedfellows - the lower chambers really piqued my interest as to their original uses, plus lots of battling pagan monsters
Maw of Chaos - The element nature of the Maw was pretty cool as well as Constantine's ritual
Sword - I suppose I enjoyed the Sword quite a bit first time around. It was the first time doing the mission impossible climb down into the treasure chamber. Felt like a Badass.
TMA: Life of the Party definitely topped my list with most missions being in my highly favored category over anything from TDP.
TDS: Didn't really have a favorite mission
Disliked:
TDP: Cragscleft's Mines, Bonehoard, both Haunted Cathedral missions - Basically the undead in this game really freaked me out back then. I think I stopped halfway through the Haunted Cathedral during my first playthrough and I'm not sure if I ever played through TDP all the way before getting into fan missions.
TMA: Casing the Joint and Framed - I hated the forced ghost and I still have a dislike for it
Soulforge had me on edge during the early periods of my playthrough
TDS: Cradle hands down. It was nasty getting through it once. I still have yet to replay TDS up to this point.
Nowadays after years of dispatching AIs of all kinds from undead to bots and even hand-to-hand with treebeasts and replaying the first two games several times (plus playing reloaded versions of these missions), my opinions have changed.
Favored:
TDP: Haunted Cathedral - I find the ruins intriguing and would love to play an expanded version of this mission with a lot more buildings accessible
Strange Bedfellows and the Maw remain favored though my interest in these missions have diminished over time
TMA: Precious Cargo - an old lighthouse and multiple piratey areas paired with an aquatic base and a submarine - more FMs with these elements please
Life of the Party - this one has diminished dramatically over time, I love the mission genre but I know this particular mission's layout too well
Shipping and Receiving - I love warehouse missions, a perfect mixture of guards, dark spaces, towering crates, and steampunk offices and machinery... plus lots of areas to loot
TMA Runner Up: Soulforge - battling bots and making devices (and figuring out how to get the most out of the available components) - lots of fun, plus it really felt like we were taking on the big boss more here than in the Maw - PS Yes I love Uncadonego's Thieves Highway
Dislike:
TDP: Bafford is really really bland now, Escape (just the Red Spiders portion actually, the rest is a fine battle gauntlet)
TMA: Casing and Masks still suck really really badly, someone needs to release a patch that makes major changes to these missions. Rumford's place has gotten really dull. (Framed has gotten much easier on repeat playthroughs)
Petike the Taffer on 27/4/2015 at 17:36
I don't have an OM I outright hate. I do dislike some, usually because they could have been designed a little better or because the tone and atmosphere just aren't something I enjoy all the time.
